Reward Points Reductions Topic

doomey
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Quote: Originally Posted By isack24 on 2/10/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By dacj501 on 2/10/2010
4 more D I conferences = 48 more teams. So there are 190 humans at D I and 140 humans at D II. D I therefore is about 59% human, D II just over 49% human. Does that additional 10% justify up to a 75% reduction in reward points? I'm not so sure.
There it is! Now I'm on board.

Yeah, it just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

I do understand the competition is greater at D1 (more experienced coaches, tougher to recruit, etc.), but I just don't think that justifies the vast difference in reward points.

Other than the fact that the game IS geared (note, z, I didn't say was mandated) towards filling D1? Even in a perfectly filled world, the D1 coaches would have to deal with more that a D2 one to reap the same rewards. D2 coaches can pull down D1 recruits, don't have to deal with drafting and have lowered standards for ineligibles (D3 don't deal with this at all). Those factors have nothing to do with division population or how many experienced coaches there are either.
2/10/2010 2:24 PM
zhawks
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I don't have time to respond to everything at the moment doomey but seriously? Too many coaches playing for free? Do you realize how ridiculous of a statement that is?! It just doesn't happen.
2/10/2010 2:30 PM
doomey
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emy... really? Kinda digging there, but hey I'm game. They still get paid more than a D2 coach and if they succeed, they get paid more or move on. Was it a perfect analogy, no, but the point is there either way.

And for the record, ACC coaches get "paid" more in HD with more recruiting cash than the Patriot League would get in most any world and a higher likelihood of making the post-season for cash rewards than an average Patriot League team.
2/10/2010 2:30 PM
dalter
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Quote: Originally Posted By doomey on 2/10/2010I, on the other hand, have no problem with it. The whole point of the game is to create a D1 dynasty and having empty or near-empty D1 conferences is contrary to that goal, IMHO.
Uh ... no.
2/10/2010 2:33 PM
isack24
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You can't compare this to real life. Real life coaches get paid. We are paying. That pretty much ends the comparison.
2/10/2010 2:35 PM
isack24
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Fine, if we are basing it on competition, then let's have a sliding scale based on how full the world is. D3 Wooden has as much compeititon as the other worlds I've seen. I'm sure there are some D1 worlds with more, but not all.
2/10/2010 2:37 PM
doomey
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 2/10/2010I don't have time to respond to everything at the moment doomey but seriously? Too many coaches playing for free? Do you realize how ridiculous of a statement that is?! It just doesn't happen
You are kidding me right? You know that to be true. Even with the cut rewards, I doubt olddave pays much if anything. Probably still playing off the surplus from before the change. There WERE coaches that stayed at D3 purely as an easier way to earn reward points to maintain their higher division schools for free.

That being said I do think that the cap should be at least enough reward points at lower levels to pay for a season if you make the NC game.
2/10/2010 2:45 PM
doomey
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Quote: Originally Posted By isack24 on 2/10/2010Fine, if we are basing it on competition, then let's have a sliding scale based on how full the world is. D3 Wooden has as much compeititon as the other worlds I've seen. I'm sure there are some D1 worlds with more, but not all
That negates the inherent difficulty disparity between division levels that has nothing to do with population.
2/10/2010 2:46 PM
isack24
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Quote: Originally Posted By doomey on 2/10/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By isack24 on 2/10/2010
Fine, if we are basing it on competition, then let's have a sliding scale based on how full the world is. D3 Wooden has as much compeititon as the other worlds I've seen. I'm sure there are some D1 worlds with more, but not all.
That negates the inherent difficulty disparity between division levels that has nothing to do with population
I really don't think that if all worlds were full that the disparity would be as big as you are making it out to be.

If D1 was full, there would probably be far fewer pulldowns/dropdowns in D2, and then the same with D3. Then the competition aspect gets minimized, because that's the major "inherent difficulty" you're referring to, I imagine.

Regardless, you're advocating for a system that implicitly holds D1 4 times more difficult than D2/D3, and that's wrong.
2/10/2010 2:51 PM
doomey
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i was referring to not only pulldowns, but draftees, full recuiting tool useage, differing ineligale dynamics at very least. D1 will never be full if lower levels hold the same incentive, that and the fact there are too many worlds and some people simlpy wouldn't stick around if the BCS confereces were always full. That's one of the reasons some people stay lower now, can't realisticly get to thier target school that's been occuped for the last 20+ seasons.
2/10/2010 3:02 PM
dalter
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Doomey, your conjecture regarding DI coaches getting more rewards points because DI is more difficult is all well and good ... except for the fact that WIS has explicitly stated the reason for the rewards points reduction, and it has absolutely nothing to do with that.

The stated purpose was to give new players more of a chance at DIII, and also (as recently written by seble) because the non-WIS gift certificates were costing the company too much money.

Well, the first part was a spectacular failure. Many coaches dropped long-term DII and DIII teams due to the rewards points reduction (both because of the actual reduction, and the principle of the whole thing), and helped turned DIII into a vast wasteland. With no veteran presence around to help guide/teach new coaches, the newbies were more frustrated than ever. Not to mention bored because they were facing a bunch of sims.

It's been suggested to bring back the rewards points and just have them used to buy WIS seasons, not outside gift certs, to ensure that it doesn't cost WIS money. That would be a terrific boon for the lower levels I really hope they follow through with it.
2/10/2010 3:02 PM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 2/10/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By doomey on 2/10/2010
I, on the other hand, have no problem with it. The whole point of the game is to create a D1 dynasty and having empty or near-empty D1 conferences is contrary to that goal, IMHO.
Really? I missed that part in the name. I didn't realize it was called Hoops Division 1 Dynasty


Quoting zhawks' post here because he's basically helping make my point. I think any future worlds they would consider adding should be strictly D1...talk about ultra competitive, I would presume at least 90% full all the time. The likelyhood that we see either happen is probably zero.
2/10/2010 3:06 PM
doomey
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Then I stand corrected, dalter, but that wasn't what was being said around here at the time (coaches playing higher divisions for free). although I doubt he'd say it if it was the case anyway and risk overtly alienating dedicated players.

Regardless, I still believe that D1 should get the better rewards for the above reasons and a change should have been made either way.
2/10/2010 3:08 PM
doomey
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Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 2/10/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 2/10/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By doomey on 2/10/2010
I, on the other hand, have no problem with it. The whole point of the game is to create a D1 dynasty and having empty or near-empty D1 conferences is contrary to that goal, IMHO.
Really? I missed that part in the name. I didn't realize it was called Hoops Division 1 Dynasty.



Quoting zhawks' post here because he's basically helping make my point. I think any future worlds they would consider adding should be strictly D1...talk about ultra competitive, I would presume at least 90% full all the time. The likelyhood that we see either happen is probably zero.
And how exactly would you decide who gets what team? At the very least the lower divisions allow for a pecking order for D1 progression. Besides that issue, it wouldnt' be full purely for the reason I stated before, people would quit if they couldn't get to a decent target school.
2/10/2010 3:10 PM
vandydave
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Quote: Originally Posted By hitman1979 on 2/10/2010I keep hearing people say that people quit D3 when reward points were reduced. This may be part of it, but IIRC, the bigger issue was implementing potential.
trust me, tons of coaches who had multiple teams dropped teams when the reward points change was made, and the teams they dropped were the lower division teams
2/10/2010 3:26 PM
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