Press still magic? Topic

mmt0315
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Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 5/14/2010Just curious MMT, you've got three active teams under that ID. All three run the FCP. Any particular reason why that defense and not one of the others?
Well, I used to run the other ones (my only national title came with the M2M); then with the advent of potential and the waste of practice minutes I went to a blended version. I didnt like the results as I dont think the talent on the team or roster makeup was built to run zone/press. The reason is Ive taken the approach to the game offensively that guards and SFs are the most important positions (if you look at my teams youll notice they all are probably in the top 10-15 in 3PAs each season)...as a natural result there has been less of an emphasis on Cs and I even had a season where I played 2Gs 2SFs and 1 PF...that means my teams usually end up with high SP/ATH which I think is most geared towards running the press. However, there are huge drawbacks to the press, the biggest being that young team have virtually no chance to do well as a result of the limitations placed on the press by virtue of IQ. A zone IMO can also be run with tremendous success if the right players are brought in.

I think the fact that the top coaches (not turning this into another top coaches thread) have all (Not sure about OR though) stated theyve won titles with each D and O and dont seem to have a preference (again I think OR believes the press is magic so not including him) should say something.

I really dont buy into the oh well everybodys running it so that proves its magic as everyone once thought the world was flat...and the masses are usually easily swayed...etc...Usually the small minority that is willing to think outside the box are the ones that have it right.

One last thing...considering the talent Ive had on my rosters and where weve finished in the season; one can say my teams are an example that the press is in fact not magic!! :)

5/14/2010 12:08 PM
mmt0315
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Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 5/14/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 5/14/2010
Ill add to Mully's point and say that of course the numbers are big 45 of the 64 teams in the tournament played the press to begin with (10 or less played some combo, but I lost track while counting); the Tark tournament pretty much went the way of chalk so it happened that the top teams played press. I think everyones convinced themselves at this point that its magic and youre seeing a higher % of team (a large majority) playing the press as a result.



This says an awful lot, don't you think?
I dont think it says anything outside of the fact that people are easily pursuaded.
5/14/2010 12:09 PM
reinsel
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I agree. What is the most popular offense among all humans? Press.

And when you run press you recruit ath/spd. Those 2 ratings are the best indicator of a good offense too I think, so the good pressing teams also have good offenses a lot.

Eh, anyway I remain unconvinced that a fullcourt press is magic. I think the most effect defenses are the combos, but they require tradeoffs in more IQ practice.
5/14/2010 12:49 PM
emy1013
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Quote: Originally Posted By reinsel on 5/14/2010
I agree. What is the most popular offense among all humans? Press.

And when you run press you recruit ath/spd. Those 2 ratings are the best indicator of a good offense too I think, so the good pressing teams also have good offenses a lot.

Eh, anyway I remain unconvinced that a fullcourt press is magic. I think the most effect defenses are the combos, but they require tradeoffs in more IQ practice.



Maybe they should rename the game "Track Star Dynasty", huh?
5/14/2010 12:52 PM
mmt0315
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Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 5/14/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By reinsel on 5/14/2010

I agree. What is the most popular offense among all humans? Press.

And when you run press you recruit ath/spd. Those 2 ratings are the best indicator of a good offense too I think, so the good pressing teams also have good offenses a lot.

Eh, anyway I remain unconvinced that a fullcourt press is magic. I think the most effect defenses are the combos, but they require tradeoffs in more IQ practice.




Maybe they should rename the game "Track Star Dynasty", huh?
Nah, you'd be right if an effective press could be run simply with SP the fact you need ATH as well makes a huge difference...Plus its a combination of many things including IQ/DEF rating/Stamina...etc...I just meant that because of the offensive philosophy I end up with highlt rated players in SP/ATH which is certainly a starting point for a strong press.
5/14/2010 1:37 PM
dshook30
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All I know is that my team was average at best and I couldn't get out of the second round of the NT, when I made it. Then, I stated a press/zone combo and began recruiting based mainly on ATH and SP. Three seasons ago, I switched to all FCP and made the PIT F4. Now, I'm in my first NT final four. Not only dowe get tons of steals, but we usually win the rebounding edge too. Both factors into my 22 game winning streak and my F4. But, call it what you want, after all this time to get here, I would have done anything, gimick or whatever, to do it. I love it and no one will convince me to think it's tainted in some way.

BTW, I was advised that DIII was all about ATH and SP in this forum. Pressing just seemed like the natural thing given my teams speed and athletic advantage.
5/14/2010 2:08 PM
reinsel
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Yeah I think press is most effective at lower levels where you really can have a giant ath/spd advantage.
5/14/2010 2:36 PM
bhansalid00
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But if more and more teams keep using press, and therefore recruit primarily for ATH / SPD (esp at D3, where you have to make tradeoffs in recruiting), shouldn't the recruit "market" eventually correct itself and favor M2M and zone teams? In other words, if I'm recruiting for M2M, I should theoretically have far less competition for recruits who are avg in ATH / SPD but very strong in other core categories, because press teams won't value those recruits as much as I do. So eventually M2M teams would get stronger recruits and see more success than press teams.

Am I missing something here?
5/14/2010 2:39 PM
a_in_the_b
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wERLL. pART OF IT WAS THAT, BEFORE, IT WAS WAY TO EASY TOP GET HIGH ath AND HIGH SPEED RECRUITS TO RUN THE PRESS WITH. Hopefully that might be a bit harder now./

5/14/2010 3:02 PM
dahsdebater
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I think it's easiest to find recruits in D2/D3 for triangle/zone than anything. Press teams, especially the large number of them that seem to run fastbreak offenses as well, have little use for slow centers with huge LP and shot blocking. Those guys can be monsters in a triangle/zone. Going back to the original purpose of this thread, I would think the only defense that would be significanty affected by the update is M2M. Since they're increasing the emphasis on individual matchups, M2M with good defenders should hypothetically become more effective and a M2M with a few holes could be easily exploited. It should also increase the competitive advantage associated with manipulating the starting lineup to place your best defenders on the other teams best scorers. Should make the M2M a much more interesting defense post-update.
5/14/2010 4:15 PM
dahsdebater
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The removal of position penalties also makes manipulating the lineup a more interesting possibility. Now a good defensive PG can play on the other team's SF, particularly if he has a little bit of rebounding talent...
5/14/2010 4:16 PM
sublightd
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I've not been around as long as others, but nothing I've seen disproves that the press is magic. Really bad press teams with no cores can get 8 TO or more a game from the benches of their opponents and there's nothing you can do about it. You can't stop players from chucking up shots vs the trap. Even setting 0 dist to weak players won't stop them from turning the ball over. That can easily translate into double digit point advantage. It's not hard to see this reflected in every box score.
5/15/2010 2:43 AM
4green2
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Didn't they say Fatigue is effected in the new engine and you will be able to play your starters longer?

If thats the case, wouldn't it effect the thing you are talking about, sublight?
5/15/2010 11:40 AM
cthomas22255
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I'm possibly returning all 11 of my actual players from this season's team next season. It will be a decent experiment on the effects of the engine on the press.
5/15/2010 11:52 AM
furry_nipps
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A conf mate (Swift) ran press, or a combo of press for a while with little to no success. He ran straight m2m this season coming off a 12 win season and is now in the national title game. Obviously m2m works better for his team then press.
5/15/2010 1:24 PM
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