what about something like this...it's a very raw idea and people smarter than me would have to think it through the rest of the way....

but what if there was an option to spend some of your team practice time (a la offense and defense) on recruiting.  Say doing 10 minutes for the whole season would earn you X amount of dollars to spend only towards FSS...maybe enough to get 1 big state or a couple smaller ones...on the flip side you lose practice minutes to develop the players you have...but you could potentially earn some free FSS and have extra money in your budget to sign a big fish
8/21/2010 10:57 AM
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Posted by furry_nipps on 8/20/2010 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Quote post by seble on 8/19/2010 5:07:00 PM:I'm very open to making FSS information free, as that would make my life easier in some ways as well.


This has been brought up for a while. Once in the Beta, and now again in the suggestions. Does anyone other then me think this would be a great idea, and should be released sooner rather then later? I think/hope its just because he doesn't think many would like it and so he isn't pushing hard to do it, but he is open for it.
how about a simple  tiered pricing model?

D1 = current FSS price
D2 = 2/3 of D1 FSS price
D3 = 1/3 of D1 FSS price

This makes the strategic service more affordable to D2 and D3 (% of carryover-wise) and somewhat on par w/ the roster opening scholly $.
8/22/2010 9:50 AM
Not a bad idea, but I still think people would pick up D3 teams to scout cheaply for their D1 teams.  Not saying that it's not happening now, because it probably is, but at least with the setup now, it's harder to scout as many states with a D3 budget.
8/23/2010 2:14 AM
Dont change it. One of the great rules of the game. It makes the recruiting decisions tougher. Speaking for myself, if you start making this game too simple it will take the fun out of it.
8/23/2010 6:18 AM
Posted by emy1013 on 8/23/2010 2:14:00 AM (view original):
Not a bad idea, but I still think people would pick up D3 teams to scout cheaply for their D1 teams.  Not saying that it's not happening now, because it probably is, but at least with the setup now, it's harder to scout as many states with a D3 budget.
It'll definitely happen....you see it often enough as-is with DIII teams with a high number of open scholarships getting picked up by humans and then signing nobody, resulting in an all-walkon signing class while the school's entire budget is spent on FSS reports.

If you drop the FSS cost for DIII and DII compared to what it is at DI, you'd only see this problem exacerbate because now there's an even larger incentive to engage in this sort of activity. For this to work, you'd have to eliminate the ability to see a higher-division's recruits, and I'm not sure how you'd reconcile that with dropdowns/pulldowns for the two lower divisions.
8/23/2010 1:10 PM
I think FSS should remain a pay service.
8/23/2010 1:26 PM
i like the idea of d3 recuits not being covered by FSS...

i also like the idea of stamina not being covered by FSS
8/23/2010 2:32 PM
I think just make it a little bit cheaper, especially for DIII schools with limited recruiting money
8/23/2010 9:36 PM
Posted by wronoj on 8/21/2010 9:37:00 AM (view original):
I have essentially the opposite opinion of everyone here--

make it free for d1 (d1 players only, so no cheating), leave everyone to pay everywhere else. this might encourage more battles at d1, where the majority seemingly wants them to increase.

At d2 and d3, I've always felt that when and where to scout was a valuable piece of strategy, and i've treated it as such. In d1, I scout the 8 states nearest me, and maybe a couple of others where i like a specific player, and never worry about the money. also, isn't moy's non-use of FSS (and i know at least one other good coach who doesn't use it at all) a similar strategic decision that would be taken away if FSS were made free?     

I'm with this guy, a great solution to the collusion issue............ Now if everyone promises not to cheat or bend the rules, I would be content with the system as is.
8/23/2010 9:54 PM
My initial reaction is that it should be left as is.  If it's changed at all, I'd be OK with either slightly lower costs at D3, or especially bow2dacowz practice minute idea. Another option is free FSS for X number of recruits that are closest to your school.

Either way, I do like the "diamond in the rough" idea, as long as they're relatively few and far between.
8/23/2010 9:55 PM
i like the idea of no fss for d3 also because of the diamond in the rough potential, as in you have no idea whether the player has high potential or not without scouting him
8/23/2010 10:05 PM
Posted by bunkerbuster on 8/23/2010 6:18:00 AM (view original):
Dont change it. One of the great rules of the game. It makes the recruiting decisions tougher. Speaking for myself, if you start making this game too simple it will take the fun out of it.
agreed from a simplicity/detail perspective. i didnt pay $12 to win, i paid $12 for a fun challenge.
8/23/2010 10:07 PM
As the author of the Free FSS, I'll explain my rationale (and it has nothing to do with the cheating that goes on).  First, the game was played for many seasons without FSS and potential.  In my opinion, when FSS was introduced, the costs associated with it didn't connect to other recruiting initiatives like CV, Evals and HVs.  For those liking the idea of FSS costing something, had FSS costs been introduced based on miles and not states, I'm quite certain you'd feel no different.  The point is, there is a disconnect between FSS costs and other costs. 

Second, at DI, FSS has turned recruiting into more local recruiting.  That means those teams with more sims and lower prestige schools around them benefit even more than they did before.  It also means that remote teams whose peer group are other Big 6 schools, are even more handicapped than before.  In DII and DIII with dropdowns, it may not be as localized for high prestige teams, but those teams can easily FSS one distant state for one particular dropdown recruit after signings start for a discounted price.

Third, and this point plays in the delicate realm of what occurs in real life and what is best for HD and that just because something occurs in real life doesn't mean it's best for HD.  To that point, I think that HD outcomes should be similar to real life, not necessarily the means to that end.  IRL, there is no way that every coach knows objectively how good players are to begin with (initial ratings).  IRL, however, it is most certainly common knowledge thru scout.com or rivals or the many other scouting services that players have pros and cons and where they currently stand.  And the costs for these services are virtually inconsequential.  There are limits on HVs and CVs and the costs for each of those items is based 100% on distance.  In HD it is these costs that are most significant.  Since there are limits IRL, costs for HVs and CVs are again, not real critical.  So what is the best way to get to the desirable end?  That is the question.  IRL, since there are limits, early recruiting efforts, prestige and a kid's preference are the main decision points.  Do I dare say that gifts help too.  It works...well, like real life since it is real life.  With Early Entries mixed in, there is pretty good balance in college basketball.  I've toyed with suggesting similar limits with having the same initiatives drive recruiting and I think it could work well.  IRL there is more of a shotgun approach with teams considering 20 kids perhaps.  And again it's public knowledge who has offered a scholly, etc.  Again, I think it could work very well to mirror real life, especially if things like preference, prestige and early effort are rewarded.

Fourth, and this may be the most important.  Many of you are suggesting that it's an actual strategic decision to use FSS.  What's strategic about it?  The states to FSS?  Whether or not to use it?  99.9% think FSS is critical so the decision isn't about whether to use it.  It's how to use it.  And we already know that it's primarily a local and/or regional function.  So again, what is the decision?  See point one on the disconnect of FSS costs.  If you were to ask me, strategy shouldn't be as much about whether to use FSS or not.  It would be to decide whether to recruit a 560 kid with average potential or a 520 kid with high potential so-to speak.  Prior to FSS the strategy was not about how to filter recruits (although there was an uproar when filters were introduced and many thought that the strategy of clicking a bunch of buttons was being taken away from them).  The strategy was whether to take a 600 kid with high REB and LP or a 600 kid with high Speed, and LP, etc.   Now with the addition of LP for guards there are still plenty of strategic decisions that we coaches can make--even more than before.  So again, it's not about whether to use strategy of purchasing FSS.  It's who you should target.  As it is, since FSS is used by nearly all and most stay within a certain range to use it, it sounds like the strategy isn't really about spending money on FSS at all.  It sounds like the strategy is finding the right school that can make FSS more advantageous and I don't think--in fact I know that that is not the intent of HD.

Fifth, the info on FSS is basically weak.  Am I to understand that I need to spend money to FSS a kid who loves my school and who has attended all games since he was in 4th grade and whose dad is on the faculty?  Really?  I wouldn't know that we were his favorite without FSS?
 
Last and this deals with the cheating aspect.  Eliminated would be the temptation of using FSS in a way that was unintended.  And we know that will go on and on.

I don't think that freeing FSS will make the game more simple, if anything would make it more complex I'd think.  Coaches would have more data to look thru and would need to strategically prioritize targets from a bigger pool.  I also think that most want to compete, not just here for a fun challenge.  I think we all want an equal and legit shot at success and to be given apples to apples opportunities.  That is different than RL.  I think IRL there are plenty of coaches who coach because they love it and as a reward they are able to put food on the table.  IRL at the high DI, there are huge pressures.  In HD there is no stress for anyone.
8/23/2010 10:52 PM
when i say "fun challenge" i essentially mean that i have fun competing, figuring out how to win

to build on my previously stated preferences (no fss for d3) i think what I would really like to see is a more complex fss system that models real life more so. barely any information available on d3 recruits versus d1 (with d2 somewhere in between), but to get the real gist on players you need to scout them on your own. fss would work well being free if that were the case.

i think if one were to limit the number of moves each team can perform during a recruiting cycle, you would see recruiting place more importance on early moves, kid preference and prestige. that may be exactly what you mean in that 'RL has limits'. i think this would improve recruiting and make it vastly more realistic. say, you can only scout him once or twice per cycle, maybe two home visits OR one campus visit, 7 phone calls, 7 coach calls, etc. the players that you're the favorite school of pop up at the beginning of recruiting, fss can be used like rivals.com...and if you want to get a top recruit at a B prestige school or lower, its a matter of recruiting said player to the maximum from the beginning of recruiting and hoping the other A schools don't.
8/24/2010 10:16 PM (edited)
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