Does it ever work to bat the pitcher 8th? Topic

Posted by ncmusician_7 on 4/26/2011 10:43:00 PM (view original):
I'd like to see one lineup (stating W, 1B, 2B, 3B, HR/PA for each lineup spot) where batting the worst hitter anywhere other than 9th is optimal.  I'm taking stolen bases, baserunning speed, etc out of the equation so we can focus only on hitter ability.
I'm still waiting to see one......
4/29/2011 10:33 PM
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Here is one:

My "normal lineup" was:
'98 Visquez
'89 Raines
'94 Doyle
'25 Carey
'98 Loretta
'94 Lemke
'98 Nixon
'75 Carter
Pitcher

I am pretty sure I could get better production with this line-up:
'89 Raines
'94 Doyle
'25 Carey
'98 Loretta
'94 Lemke
'98 Nixon
'75 Carter
Pitcher
'98 Visquez
4/30/2011 2:07 AM
Take it for what its worth...  after all, it comes from me....

I bat a 560-620pa prototypical leadoff batter (high obp, good speed, high sb%) 9th often.  As others have said, other than in the 1st inning, the leadoff hitter is not assured of leading off.  And remember this... (I cant believe no one has mentioned this)....   if you bat him 8th, his SB attempts will be SEVERELY HAMPERED.  Most pitchers are at a setting of 5 for SAC.  So, rather than risk a CS with less than 2 outs, the pitcher will sac him to 2nd.  If unsuccessful, you have a slow footed pitcher on 1st with 1 or 2 outs.  If there are 2 outs, he will RARELY attempt a steal, because a CS results in the pitcher leading off.  Only players set to 5 in SB att in the settings in my experience, ever attempt SBs with 2 outs from the 8 hole.  The negatives of batting 9th are few.  One is if the pitcher walks or gets a single (most likely way of getting on base for a pitcher), if he walks or singles, you will likely lose a SB opp, because of the slow footed pitcher ahead of him.  Other flaw is if you have a team full of low SLUG%, and higher OBP, the pitcher will come to bat with multiple men on base more frequently batting 8th.  Usually there is a drop off at 80 or 100M from 7 to 8 in the lineup due to salary constraints.

Also, in building a lineup, I found that putting all the speedy guys together and all the slower power hitters together helps.  If they are intersparced, what will wind up happening is having a ton of LOB.  Ideally, you want the speedy slappers together to maximize the single, sb, rbi single opps.  Slower players score on HRs no matter where they are on base.  Speedy guys can manufacture runs.  And if they are consecutive in the lineup, you can maximize their potential.  Having 4 slow footed mashers preceded by 4 speedy guys has served me well.  I almost always have my lowest BA, OBP homerun hitter hit 8th.  I dont want him singling and wasting the hit by having the pitcher strand him. 

Just my 2 cents.
4/30/2011 5:17 PM
Posted by zubinsum on 4/30/2011 2:07:00 AM (view original):
Here is one:

My "normal lineup" was:
'98 Visquez
'89 Raines
'94 Doyle
'25 Carey
'98 Loretta
'94 Lemke
'98 Nixon
'75 Carter
Pitcher

I am pretty sure I could get better production with this line-up:
'89 Raines
'94 Doyle
'25 Carey
'98 Loretta
'94 Lemke
'98 Nixon
'75 Carter
Pitcher
'98 Visquez
Raines
Carey
Doyle
Loretta
Lemke
Carter
Vizquel
Nixon
.2OBP,.2SLG Pitcher
This would be slightly better than those 2 lineups.
5/1/2011 7:53 PM
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Posted by zubinsum on 5/2/2011 1:20:00 AM (view original):
What kind of algorithm are you using to figure that out?
I found a site that seems to produce very similar results to the excel spreadsheet I created.
5/2/2011 5:21 PM
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Just my opinion but, I always bat a guy with a low average and a high on base percentage(say .390 plus) in the nine spot if he is a base stealer.  Reason being that if he doesn't hit for average then he is not going to drive in runs at the bottom of the order, but if he is getting on base (via walks) it just gives me one more guy on base in front of my best RBI guys and it turns my leadoff hitter with a high average into an RBI guy as well.  Of course fatigue is another reason, and I strongly disagree with the person who said he would bat his high batting average guy there. Why would you waist his RBI ability by batting him after the pitcher?

6/16/2011 12:27 PM
High AVG = High OBP (usually, though admittedly not always) = good in 9 slot for reasons you said above

Low PA = fatigues easily = good in 9 slot to play in more games
6/17/2011 11:14 AM
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Does it ever work to bat the pitcher 8th? Topic

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