Team Building Process - After the fact comments Topic

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I must say, I'm feeling a bit better than last year.  There are certainly some teams/strategies here that are better than mine, but I seem to remember a lot more "how/why the hell did I not think of that??" moments while reading these last year.
8/3/2011 4:57 PM
$70M - 89 Dodger Loaners
I am a Dodger fan, and in these types of themes I don't see much reason to search far and wide. 89 has a bunch of high PA, low $ specialties on the Dodgers: Jeff Hamilton, Alfredo Griffin, Willie Randolph, John Shelby, etc. There's also plenty of pitching, between Hershiser, Belcher, et al. I took a ton of Dodgers: 6 of my 8 starting position players, 8 of my 13 hitters overall; and 3 of my 4 SPs. Only my relievers are fill-ins. My pitching needs to be dominant.
 
$80M - Roaring 20s and Aught for Naught
I went with a HR team (because I like HR teams, not because they do well) and paired my 1920s hitters with deadball pitchers from the 1900s. I essentially looked for high HR# numbers and low 1B# numbers: Babe Ruth 22, Cy Williams 23, and Lou Gehrig 25 make up my core. I grabbed 1908 Addie Joss since everyone says he's good. This team has WAY too few at-bats. Oops.
 
$90M - Texas-bred Rangers
I think what I was figuring here was that with good defense, it would be hard to get hits. So I grabbed a negative singles park and postive HR park and figured my good fielders and park would take care of the non-HR, and so my pitchers could have high OAVs but low HR numbers. And then my hitters would just hit the ball over the heads of the good fielders on everbody else's team. That's the plan at least.
 
$100M - The Four Workhorses of the HR-pocalypse
I said I like HR teams right? Well, this is not one of them. First, I decided I'd get a low HR park and a pitchers park in general. I liked Busch Stadium (II), so I took 09 Chris Carpenter. I then wanted my other pitchers to be: (1) low walk, (2) low OAV, (3) high HR. I ended up with 2000 BOS Pedro, 1995 ATL Maddux, and 1966 Marichal. I did get Pujols and Willie Mays, but had to ditch Nomar cuz he was too expensive. I'm not happy with my 3B, LF, RF, or SS, and I wanted my 2B to play SS. So that's not a good start. I also don't like my bullpen. But I do like my SPs fit with the ballpark, so there's that.
 
$110M - 89-99 The Thrill Is Back
Again, like the $70M, I feel no reason to search forever when 80% of your first choices will work fine. So I went with my favorite player ever Will Clark (why is a Dodger fan a Will Clark fan? 6-year olds whose Dad tells them they swing like Will Clark don't quite understand the whole Giants-Dodgers thing yet). Anyway, 1989 Will Clark is awesome and he comes with Kevin Mitchell so taht's a good start to the offense. Of course, I ended up use a 141-PA partial season for Mitchell, so whatever. The 89 Giants gave me Brett Butler 92, Clark 89, Matt Williams 95, Robby Thompson 93, and my partial Mitchell 96 seasons (he is awesome for those 141 PAs). They had decent pitching: Reuschel 85 and an old Goose Gossage (!) so I got his awesome 1981 season. I was deciding between the 1999 and 2000 BAL teams and the 2000 STL team that Clark played on (the only teams that were 10 seasons apart). I settled on 99 BAL since they had Juan Guzman and somebody else, I forget who (I told my commish I chose 2000 and he came back immediately with "I found Juan Guzman and [somebody else] who aren't on either team so I stopped checking"...so sorry to my commish!). Anyway, that gave me Steroid Brady Anderson 96, Albert/Joey Belle 94, Cal Ripken 91, Charles Johnson 00, plus good pitching in Mussina 95, Guzman 92, Arthur Rhodes 02, Jesse Orosco 83, and BJ Ryan 06. This is my best team, they'll go 80-82.
 
$120M - Wallball Double
I hate the themes that have such a large player pool to choose from so I just pick a schtick and go with it. This one was "find players who don't hit HRs but hit a lot of 2Bs and some 1Bs, then find low OAV pitchers." My .400 hitters are Ed Delahanty 1895 and Tip O'Neill 1887 (there's no other way to use this awesome season of his, but he hits a sh*t ton of doubles!) who consequently suck at defense and there's only one DH spot. My .350 hitters are Tris Speaker 21, Michey Cochrane 30, George Burns 26, and Tony Gwynn 93. I took Honus Wagner 04, who hit .349, and I can't tell you how much that bothered me that he couldn't have gotten one more hit and been over .350. Like, it ruined me. I then got Boggs and Biggio to hit atop my order. The pitching staff was easy: Pedro 00, Nolan Ryan 72, Nomo 95, and some guy named Floyd Youmans 86. All low OAV, but kinda high BB. Not really sure why I picked my bullpen guys, but I ended up with Mike Adams 09 and Bob Milacki 88 so I think that's good. I hope to god I have enough innings (1,590), cuz otherwise I give up.
8/3/2011 7:25 PM
I haven't read every write-up yet, but I am enjoying what I've read so far.. (I'm on vacation in Newport Beach, CA and my wife wants me to get off the computer and get out in the sun).

Anyway, here are some additional miscellaneous comments in no particular order...

110M
It may have been a mistake not taking Eddie Collins, but I had my heart set on using 1920 Ruth, and being able to also get Addie Joss, Cy Young, Nap Lajoie, Joe Jackson, Lefty O'Doul, etc.. was just too good to pass up.  The 1920 version of Babe is one of the few players that will still overachieve - even at this cap level.

120M
What is the typical strategy to beat deadball hitters like Joss?  Pick low-HR, high average hitters, right?  So, in this theme, why are so many people (including many of the top owners) using deadballers in this theme?  The HR suppression just isn't that important here.  It seems like guys like Pedro and Maddux are automatics.  I could be wrong...

90M
Going with good hitting pitchers was a great idea.  Even at the inflated cost, I wish I would have thought of that.  I would've for sure taken guys like Ruth and W.Johnson. I never considered looking for catcher-loophole players, because I'm not convinced those players have a lot of extra value. 

80M
Everybody is loving the 1900 pitchers.  This should really work out for my 1800's hitters.

100M
Of the most populare selections.... 98 Braves (Maddux), 14 Red Sox (Leonard), 85 Cardinals (Tudor), 96 Marlins (Brown), 06 Twins (Sanata) and 67 White Sox (Horlen), I have none of them.  That's probably not good.

70M
Nobody else even considered the 2006 Dodgers... definately not good.
8/3/2011 7:36 PM
For the $120mil I looked for guys that had a low normalized OAV.  I ended up with two deadballers out of three in my rotation. It wasn't a conscious choice to select deadballers though. Their innings just end up being more affordable, it seems.

As for the "catcher loophole"...I don't see how it benefits anyone.  Sure you can sneak more offense into the league, but as far as I can tell you're paying for it.  You automatically pay more when a guy is ranked defensively at a second position, and you're also paying for the "A" arm you're not using.  So I really don't think it's a helpful loophole.
8/3/2011 9:09 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 8/3/2011 9:10:00 PM (view original):
For the $120mil I looked for guys that had a low normalized OAV.  I ended up with two deadballers out of three in my rotation. It wasn't a conscious choice to select deadballers though. Their innings just end up being more affordable, it seems.

As for the "catcher loophole"...I don't see how it benefits anyone.  Sure you can sneak more offense into the league, but as far as I can tell you're paying for it.  You automatically pay more when a guy is ranked defensively at a second position, and you're also paying for the "A" arm you're not using.  So I really don't think it's a helpful loophole.
I am not convinced that you pay more at all.  One of the players I took was Cookie Rojas.  Compare him to a similar player, which turns out to be Steve Saxs.  Cookie has several positions as well as an A arm.  Steve Sax is rated only at 2B.  Here are their # stat lines along with their $PA.

Rojas     .311  .366  .384   with A-/C-  for  $7,113   
Sax         .316  .366   .386 with  A-/D+  for $7,263

Looks pretty similar to me.
8/3/2011 9:58 PM
70M1987 San Francisco Giants
I remembered from this forum last year some mentioning of speed being the way to get value at low caps; ’87 Coleman was a favorite. I originally tried to build the Astros of ’87, but despite strong starters, there was a lack of depth in the ‘pen. I then wound up building 3 teams: ’89 Mets (using HoJo’s value at short), the ’82 Astros (to utilize the Dome and keep IP down), and the ’87 Giants. The ’87 team got me Coleman and Wilson and the Giants had depth in the bullpen - 4 very good relievers, a nice starter (Reuschel), a serviceable mop-up, and enough bats to make the 8 player and 35M minimum. Only two pitchers above 200IP, so will be using 6 starters including Doyle Alexander and Pascual Perez. Tim Burke closing is a bit decadent, and ’87 Jack McDowell somehow fit in to give me that (hopefully) key win in the division.
 
++All stats are fully inclusive++
 
Hitting: 5071 PA; .279 AVG; .341 OBP; .417 SLG; 116 HR; 261 SB
Pitching: 1323 IP; 3.06 ERA; 1.14 WHIP; .231 OAV
 
80MThe Aughts
I wanted Addie Joss in Yankee III at 80M. 
 
Hitting: 5346 PA; .291 AVG; .385 OBP; .523 SLG; 247 HR; 41 SB
Pitching: 1388 IP; 1.63 ERA; 0.93 WHIP; .211 OAV
 
90MHoney Badger Don't Care
I don’t like this team. I sorted by AVG# and grabbed the first hitter that qualified at each position under 6M. I chose moderate 7M starters (Higuera, Presidente, Tiny, and Jarvis) and the best 5 relievers under 3M I could find.
 
Hitting: 5203 PA; .293 AVG; .366 OBP; .428 SLG; 111 HR; 135 SB
Pitching: 1374 IP; 2.48 ERA; 0.99 WHIP; .213 OAV
 
100MPedro Grover Canonball Brown
I had scores of different versions of this team. Immediately found Dutch Leonard and considered him a lock (Speaker, Shore). Then K Brown got me a SS in Renteria, power in Sheff, relief in Nen, and Helling for key spot starts. Then I began fooling around with every other pitcher in the entire SIM (I know that came out wrong, but you get the idea). On the night before the deadline I says to myself, “How bout that expensive Pete Alexander guy?” I forced it and then forced in the ’00 Pedro just ‘cause. I wound up dumping Leonard,, shafting myself on defense, and throwing Titcomb in simply because of his name. This one made me dizzy.
 
Hitting: 5199 PA; .300 AVG; .385 OBP; .486 SLG; 162 HR; 88 SB
Pitching: 1447 IP; 1.94 ERA; 0.94 WHIP; .200 OAV
 
110MEddie Collins 12-28
This was the second team I worked on. Found Collins early on, started building teams as I worked through his years. Once I found the '28 A’s, I knew Collins was the guy. Found decent pitching in '12 (Plank, Covaleski, Krause, Bender, Quinn). Decided to build the team, put it aside, build the others, then come back and continue working on Collins after 1912. Never went back, never found the 1915 squad. We’ll see how this pitching holds up. Offense is quite compelling.
 
Hitting: 5588 PA; .341 AVG; .413 OBP; .509 SLG; 100 HR; 181 SB
Pitching: 1522 IP; 1.96 ERA; 1.00 WHIP; .215 OAV
 
120MHit Faced
I recently discovered the doubles strategy that y’all talk about. (I’m pretty slow at this). I figured this was the cap for it. Drafted doubles and the lowest OAV I could find. Nothing too fancy.
 
Hitting: 5912 PA; .350 AVG; .413 OBP; .518 SLG; 107 HR; 154 SB
Pitching: 1486 IP; 1.68 ERA; 0.88 WHIP; .183 OAV 
 
I really appreciate this particular forum – it gives a tremendous perspective for those of us who have jumped in only the last 1 or 2 years. 
 
Thanks schwarze for a really fun event.
8/4/2011 7:50 AM (edited)
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Based on some of the write ups I'm seeing, either I have way too many PAs and IP at 120m or there are going to be some owners with some nasty stamina issues.
8/4/2011 10:40 AM
Agreed, alley.  I took 1,700IP, so either I'm going to be in very good shape come the end of the season, or I vastly overpaid and am going to suffer for it. Honestly though, given that this is both a $120mil league, and that extreme hitters parks are mandated, I don't see how anything less than 1,600IP won't cripple a staff.
8/4/2011 10:44 AM
70M
Nobody else even considered the 2006 Dodgers... definately not good.
I definitely considered them (Maddux & Wang make a good $70M combo), but I hate platoons, so I couldn't make the position players work.
8/4/2011 11:01 AM
I have a little over 1600 in one of the less crazy parks at $120m and I thought I was cutting it close.
8/4/2011 11:39 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 8/3/2011 9:10:00 PM (view original):
For the $120mil I looked for guys that had a low normalized OAV.  I ended up with two deadballers out of three in my rotation. It wasn't a conscious choice to select deadballers though. Their innings just end up being more affordable, it seems.

As for the "catcher loophole"...I don't see how it benefits anyone.  Sure you can sneak more offense into the league, but as far as I can tell you're paying for it.  You automatically pay more when a guy is ranked defensively at a second position, and you're also paying for the "A" arm you're not using.  So I really don't think it's a helpful loophole.
I won't get into a big debate over this.  I just know I found ONE player who fit the criteria stated with an OPS# of >.850 and cost less than $8888 (I sometimes use goofy criteria for my searches).   It was Duke Farrell, a part-time catcher with ratings at 3B/OF.  That started me looking elsewhere for similar price breaks... and I only found one other full-timer (Jimmie Foxx).  I will say that Leyritz/Sandoval are pretty solid offensive replacements that I'm positive were cheaper than their A/B+ comps.
8/4/2011 11:48 AM
Well, I could be wrong about paying for extra position eligibility...it's always seemed that way to me.  But I thought it was fairly common knowledge that WIS places a minimum price on A arms at catcher.
8/4/2011 11:54 AM
Compare the 83 and 75 Gary Carter.  That's a good example of the "catcher loophole".
8/4/2011 12:28 PM
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