I cannot believe I lost this battle..... Topic

jck45
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I gave you 3 real life SEC coaches as examples of coaches who had taken a different route than NT wins to become HCs. That was my point, not to say that all 3 are exactly analogous situations to me (though I think Barbee at Auburn is pretty close!)

The fact that my thread gets hijacked is bad enough, but to get hijacked to tell me I wasn't qualified to begin with?

Then, when I try to defend myself, you call me disingenuous and are relentless in your attacks.

What a joke.
5/1/2012 3:23 PM
jck45
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So I just took a look at grit's Allen Resume...

He went 1-4 in D2 NT games en route to jumping directly to d1 Northwestern...... 






5/1/2012 7:17 PM
girt25
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As some of the vets here likely know/remember, I took over this account from another coach after he was at NW. If you want to say I'm a jerk or this or that, that's fine. But you'll have a time time finding fault with my resume in any world.
5/1/2012 9:24 PM
girt25
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Posted by jck45 on 5/1/2012 3:23:00 PM (view original):
I gave you 3 real life SEC coaches as examples of coaches who had taken a different route than NT wins to become HCs. That was my point, not to say that all 3 are exactly analogous situations to me (though I think Barbee at Auburn is pretty close!)

The fact that my thread gets hijacked is bad enough, but to get hijacked to tell me I wasn't qualified to begin with?

Then, when I try to defend myself, you call me disingenuous and are relentless in your attacks.

What a joke.
What you said was, "In the real world, there are plenty of coaches at low-level BCS schools who came from successful low-level D1 schools without winning games in the Dance ... From SEC.... In the real word, Ole Miss, Miss State, and Auburn... all hired coaches who hadn't won a game in the dance."

But the reality is that at least two of those three coaches are not even the tiniest bit analogous, because (as you well knew but conveniently didn't mention) they weren't head coaches. The real world is extremely different in that regard and simply not analagous. You were attempting to make it seem like something it wasn't -- or at least that's how it came across.

And I wasn't even the one who initially pointed this whole thing out, I simply agree with those who did.

Regardless, I hope you do very well at UT. Best of luck.

5/1/2012 9:30 PM
girt25
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Posted by coach_billyg on 5/1/2012 1:06:00 PM (view original):
i got my first BCS job, c+ colorado, without any NT wins. had 4 1st round appearances in my 4 seasons in d1, and 2 of those were like 100 rpi CT wins. after 3 seasons at colorado, 7th d1 season overall, i got my first NT win and d1 NT title. so, i am with jck and slicknick. nothing wrong with getting a rebuilder big 6 program without NT wins, it doesn't mean you aren't ready.
slicknick/billyg --

Is it possible to be a coach who hasn't had significant success, get a BCS gig and then go on to bigger success? Yes, it's possible. It's also possible (and I see it all the time) for that coach to go to the BCS job and struggle mightily.

The fact that there are people who don't have success, get the job and ultimately do well doesn't mean getting the job initially was right.

It's like hitting on 18, drawing a 3 and declaring it a good move in hindsight.
5/1/2012 9:36 PM
slicknick777
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To get the job at Iowa St. I turned a D- prestige school to a B- prestige school at Colgate in the Patriot League.  I think that is more than deserving of a low level BCS job.  Like I said before, B- might have been a little bit high of a BCS job to get in jck's case, but I don't see anything wrong with someone getting a C-prestige school or worse in a BCS conference.  If you know how to recruit at lower level schools and get them into the NT, then you should be given consideration because you can now translate that success to a BCS school. 

That being said, I think your belief would have held more water when I did make that job switch.  It does not hold any water now, in my opinion.  Look at the number of schools advancing to the 2nd round in the NT.  Non-BCS schools rarely ever beat BCS schools in the NT.  It is becoming so rare, that just making the NT consistently should be more than enough to get a low-level BCS job.  That's just my opinion.  I think there's a worse problem with people getting upper-level jobs they don't deserve but that's just me.
5/2/2012 12:08 AM
emy1013
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Posted by slicknick777 on 5/2/2012 12:08:00 AM (view original):
To get the job at Iowa St. I turned a D- prestige school to a B- prestige school at Colgate in the Patriot League.  I think that is more than deserving of a low level BCS job.  Like I said before, B- might have been a little bit high of a BCS job to get in jck's case, but I don't see anything wrong with someone getting a C-prestige school or worse in a BCS conference.  If you know how to recruit at lower level schools and get them into the NT, then you should be given consideration because you can now translate that success to a BCS school. 

That being said, I think your belief would have held more water when I did make that job switch.  It does not hold any water now, in my opinion.  Look at the number of schools advancing to the 2nd round in the NT.  Non-BCS schools rarely ever beat BCS schools in the NT.  It is becoming so rare, that just making the NT consistently should be more than enough to get a low-level BCS job.  That's just my opinion.  I think there's a worse problem with people getting upper-level jobs they don't deserve but that's just me.
You make some valid points Nick and you're probably correct, but he didn't he make the NT consistently.  4 out of 23 seasons in D1 with an NT bid.  Sorry but that doesn't fit the definition of consistency, even at a low d-1 school.

It's not his fault, he applied for schools that the system said he was qualified for.  In this case, the system seems to be wrong.
5/2/2012 1:12 AM
girt25
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Posted by slicknick777 on 5/2/2012 12:08:00 AM (view original):
To get the job at Iowa St. I turned a D- prestige school to a B- prestige school at Colgate in the Patriot League.  I think that is more than deserving of a low level BCS job.  Like I said before, B- might have been a little bit high of a BCS job to get in jck's case, but I don't see anything wrong with someone getting a C-prestige school or worse in a BCS conference.  If you know how to recruit at lower level schools and get them into the NT, then you should be given consideration because you can now translate that success to a BCS school. 

That being said, I think your belief would have held more water when I did make that job switch.  It does not hold any water now, in my opinion.  Look at the number of schools advancing to the 2nd round in the NT.  Non-BCS schools rarely ever beat BCS schools in the NT.  It is becoming so rare, that just making the NT consistently should be more than enough to get a low-level BCS job.  That's just my opinion.  I think there's a worse problem with people getting upper-level jobs they don't deserve but that's just me.
Winning and turning a program around at a non-BCS school in a weak conference isn't that difficult. You're being up on a lot of sims, etc.

I do appreciate the point you make in your second paragraph. It is harder now to win DI NT games from non-BCS conferences than it used to be, no doubt about it. But he had no history of any real success at any level (D3, D2, DI before the change we're referencing or DI now) over a 30-season stretch.
5/2/2012 7:07 AM
ardthomp
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What matters what he did previously to what he did at Brown?  You aren't graded on your whole coaching resume.  He made the post season five seasons in a row at Brown and moved to B-/C+ Tennessee.  You might have an argument if he was the higher seed and lost to lower seeds, but the fact is that Brown isn't going to be a high seed.  So, he lost to bigger schools.  His reward was that Brown's prestige went up to C+, the highest it ever was at the school, combined with a streak of five postseason appearances, the most in school history. 

If he landed a job at A- Georgetown you guys might have a legit beef, but he went to a lower prestige Tennessee.  Hardly anything to get worked up about.  By the way girt, you only had one NT win prior to landing the job at Northwestern.  Did you deserve that job?
5/2/2012 9:29 AM
kmasonbx
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It is odd that girt has quoted every post, but conveniently skipped over jck's point about him only have 1 NT win before going to Northwestern, maybe now that ard has reiterated that point he'll address it. But I guess that's the way things go, you make an argument, and then somebody brings up a point that strongly discredits your argument so you ignore it. I can already guess the retort of "I never said I deserved the Northwestern job."
5/2/2012 9:35 AM
girt25
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Posted by kmasonbx on 5/2/2012 9:35:00 AM (view original):
It is odd that girt has quoted every post, but conveniently skipped over jck's point about him only have 1 NT win before going to Northwestern, maybe now that ard has reiterated that point he'll address it. But I guess that's the way things go, you make an argument, and then somebody brings up a point that strongly discredits your argument so you ignore it. I can already guess the retort of "I never said I deserved the Northwestern job."
Posted by girt25 on 5/1/2012 9:24:00 PM (view original):
As some of the vets here likely know/remember, I took over this account from another coach after he was at NW. If you want to say I'm a jerk or this or that, that's fine. But you'll have a time time finding fault with my resume in any world.


I didn't skip over it, kmason. Quoted again above.

You should read more carefully before going into attack mode.
5/2/2012 10:27 AM
jck45
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Posted by kmasonbx on 5/2/2012 9:35:00 AM (view original):
It is odd that girt has quoted every post, but conveniently skipped over jck's point about him only have 1 NT win before going to Northwestern, maybe now that ard has reiterated that point he'll address it. But I guess that's the way things go, you make an argument, and then somebody brings up a point that strongly discredits your argument so you ignore it. I can already guess the retort of "I never said I deserved the Northwestern job."
I would also like it reiterate that it was 1-4 in DIVISION 2 NT before jumping directly to D1 BCS Northwestern!





5/2/2012 10:40 AM
jck45
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How can have the audacity to say that I don't deserve the job I'm at now when you (or your account) went from 1-4 in Division 2 NT DIRECTLY TO NORTHWESTERN??

You deserve you job now because you took over somebody else's account?? Riiiiiiiight.



Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones......
5/2/2012 10:46 AM
tianyi7886
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don't have a dog in this fight but I think girt said he took over the girt account when it was already at Northwestern; the D2 resume wasn't his.
5/2/2012 11:39 AM
girt25
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Posted by jck45 on 5/2/2012 10:46:00 AM (view original):
How can have the audacity to say that I don't deserve the job I'm at now when you (or your account) went from 1-4 in Division 2 NT DIRECTLY TO NORTHWESTERN??

You deserve you job now because you took over somebody else's account?? Riiiiiiiight.



Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones......
Pretty simple, I would say that he shouldn't have been able to make that jump at the time, either. Again, I'm saying this is a flaw in the game, not anything on you personally.

But please, let's compare resumes. Been a stressful morning, I need a good laugh.

I continue to wish you the best at UT. I hope you being a mediocre coach doesn't get in the way of leading the Vols to glory.
5/2/2012 11:55 AM (edited)
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