Guys like Mays only really seem to shine in Progressive Leagues.

But in themes, yeah... he's not so good. Ken Griffey Jr. and some of the 95-05 stars like Walker also underperform... and right now I have a team with the 9+M Jackie Robinson who's using up a bunch of cap space and contributing very little.

As for pitchers, a lot of those 70's guys like Seaver, Carlton and Jenkins all seem pretty lackluster.

Relievers, in general, are very hit and miss due to their low sample sizes. I've had '81 Butcher both kill it and get killed just due to random happenstance.

I’ve tried 2011 Mike Adams (the full season version not the partial) a few times and he’s been average at best and horrible (1.40+ whip, ERA over 5) twice. Even used him on a team at Colt Stadium once and he was horrible then also.

Posted by ML_dad on 11/28/2020 5:46:00 AM (view original):
I’ve tried 2011 Mike Adams (the full season version not the partial) a few times and he’s been average at best and horrible (1.40+ whip, ERA over 5) twice. Even used him on a team at Colt Stadium once and he was horrible then also.

I've had partial 2011 Adams perform better than 09 Adams before. As far as I'm concerned, he's one of the best $/IP values in the database.

The following have consistently underperformed for me. I know others swear by some of them, but I swear at them.

C `61 Elston Howard, `35 Jimmie Foxx (the `59 Howard for $3M is a steal)
1B Lou Gehrig (pains me to say it), Albert Pujols (all seasons), Norm Cash `61 (beyond awful), Darin Erstad `00 (worse than Cash)
2B Joe Morgan (well chronicled in SIM)
SS Troy Tulowitzki, Ernie Banks (putrid)
3B Joe Torre `71 (as noted elsewhere), Al Rosen `53 (absurdly overpriced)
OF Willie Mays, Mike Trout, Reggie Jackson, George Foster
SP Ed Walsh `10 (100 fewer IP and more expensive than Ed Walsh `08, always underperforms him -- always), Claude Hendrix `14,
Bob Gibson `68 (hurts me to say it), Vida Blue `71, Catfish Hunter `72, Lady Baldwin `85 ,Babe Adams `09 (bust as a starter or long reliever)
RP Eckersley `89 and `90 (broken), Mariano Rivera (nearly all seasons), Melancon, Jake McGee, Wade Davis

Posted by thunder1008 on 11/29/2020 2:07:00 AM (view original):
The following have consistently underperformed for me. I know others swear by some of them, but I swear at them.

C `61 Elston Howard, `35 Jimmie Foxx (the `59 Howard for $3M is a steal)
1B Lou Gehrig (pains me to say it), Albert Pujols (all seasons), Norm Cash `61 (beyond awful), Darin Erstad `00 (worse than Cash)
2B Joe Morgan (well chronicled in SIM)
SS Troy Tulowitzki, Ernie Banks (putrid)
3B Joe Torre `71 (as noted elsewhere), Al Rosen `53 (absurdly overpriced)
OF Willie Mays, Mike Trout, Reggie Jackson, George Foster
SP Ed Walsh `10 (100 fewer IP and more expensive than Ed Walsh `08, always underperforms him -- always), Claude Hendrix `14,
Bob Gibson `68 (hurts me to say it), Vida Blue `71, Catfish Hunter `72, Lady Baldwin `85 ,Babe Adams `09 (bust as a starter or long reliever)
RP Eckersley `89 and `90 (broken), Mariano Rivera (nearly all seasons), Melancon, Jake McGee, Wade Davis

I started using 1992 Dennis Eckersley instead of the grossly overpriced 1990 version, and he performs outstanding for just over $3 million. I agree with all your other selections as underperformers, especially given salary.

1909 Orval Overall is a good replacement for Walsh for about $7 million less.

1998 Vinny Castilla is a better option at the hot corner than Torre. Santo doesn't perform well for me either.

I've started using 1970 Vida Blue as a lefty specialist or Setup B, instead of his big '71 season with much better results.

Cheap closers I like are 1988 John Franco, 1995 Norm Charlton, and 1991 Tom Henke.

Add 1983 Tom Niedenfuer to the list. He sucks!

I'd add Mike Schmidt, 1979 Darrell Porter, 1928 Garland Braxton, 2006 Cla Meredith, and 2013 Koji Uehara to the list. Schmidt and Porter are somewhat similar to Morgan in that they're strong defensive players who draw walks but don't have high 1B/100# numbers. I've noticed through the years that this type of player tends to underperform significantly in the sim unless they're in a progressive league.

Weird cuz I swear by the Cla. Always been good for me. Koji however, is the most hit or miss player I know. Either the best RP in the league, or a 5+ era, no in between

I think the issue w/ some of these elite relievers are how you set them. Gagne may have a lot of appearances and innings, like Eck but I finally changed my strategy with them.....especially in higher cap leagues where you have both or a lot of RP. Just because you dont need them every game and they do not fatigue, set their pitchcount LOW, like 15 Max.....they usually get hit after a few hitters when they are likely over that pitch count. I think Contrarian put a good post out about that....

Posted by d_rock97 on 12/10/2020 12:51:00 AM (view original):
Weird cuz I swear by the Cla. Always been good for me. Koji however, is the most hit or miss player I know. Either the best RP in the league, or a 5+ era, no in between

It's the HR rate, similar to some of Eck's good seasons. If they can keep the homers down, they'll be lights out.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Roy Thomas. He always looks like such a value, especially playing at +1 singles parks especially Dodger where he isn't hurt by his RL lack of doubles as they're suppressed so much there. He has good to great range in many seasons, OBP#'s/OBP+s that are excellent, high bb/100#s, doesn't tire, etc.... I've given up on him after many tries due to a very consistent underperformance

Honestly, I think you can add pretty much any right-handed batter's name here.

The better question might be to name a right-handed batter doesn't routinely disappoint.

For pitchers, Newhouser, Spahn, Whitey Ford, and RP John Butcher always seem to get wrecked when I use them. Koufax, too, but I know some people have success with him. Most mid-40s through mid-60s SP are iffy, in my experience.

Quote post by jmcraven74 on 11/9/2021 6:05:00 PM:
Honestly, I think you can add pretty much any right-handed batter's name here.

The better question might be to name a right-handed batter doesn't routinely disappoint.

1919 Gavvy Cravath... Doesn't matter the cap.
2020 Ke'Bryan Hayes has also been solid for my at a variety of caps.
1886 Dan Brouthers
Almost any Rogers Hornsby, Jimmie Foxx, Ed Delahanty, or Honus Wagner
1887 King Kelly
1899 & 1902 Nap Lajoie
2017 JD Martinez
1994 Tony Gwynn
1921 & 23 Harry Heilmann
1885 Pete Browning
1902 Charlie Hickman

Posted by just4me on 11/9/2021 8:13:00 PM (view original):

Quote post by jmcraven74 on 11/9/2021 6:05:00 PM:
Honestly, I think you can add pretty much any right-handed batter's name here.

The better question might be to name a right-handed batter doesn't routinely disappoint.

1919 Gavvy Cravath... Doesn't matter the cap.
2020 Ke'Bryan Hayes has also been solid for my at a variety of caps.
1886 Dan Brouthers
Almost any Rogers Hornsby, Jimmie Foxx, Ed Delahanty, or Honus Wagner
1887 King Kelly
1899 & 1902 Nap Lajoie
2017 JD Martinez
1994 Tony Gwynn
1921 & 23 Harry Heilmann
1885 Pete Browning
1902 Charlie Hickman

Sweet- thanks- some there I have not used but will try. Gywnn is a lefty. I've been disappointed by Heilmann and some of the mid-priced Hornsbys..

These are supposed to be disappointing guys. I agree with Gwynn, have seldom seen him do well...same goes for most of Rickey Hendersons seasons. Hornsby never disappoints.