Ahhhh. Sarcasm. Gets me every time ;)

There is nothing you can say to make me agree toews and Kane are already top 10 nhlers.


Buff was not the heart of the team.... toews has been for 3 years now..... but buff was a huge loss.... his size more than anything.

Posted by moy23 on 1/22/2011 7:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mudbone1969 on 1/22/2011 6:28:00 PM (view original):
Please don't tell me you just equated +/- to how good a player is.  Please?

I'm confused how we beat Detroit today without the Mighty Buff.  I'm sure it was a fluke, as Buff was our heart and soul.  Silly to think that having two of the top ten players in the world would help us.

And by that logic philly must suck because we lost to nj today.... must be the departure of gagne.


2 of the top 10 players in the world? You are delusional. I'm not even sure if you are talking about Kane toews or Keith since none of them are in the top 10. Richards is a better player than toews and I would never call him top 10. Are any hawks even on the leaderboards?

I'm not quite sure how far down your throat you just shoved your foot, but I'm thinking it's pretty d*mn far!!!!!

I personally would consider Richards one of the worlds top ten as well, but I also wouldn't be so quick to discount the players you just brushed aside so quickly and easily...

I have a question for you moy,  how good was Al MacInnis as a defenseman?  not as a power play monster, but as a defenseman?

 macInnis sucked a$$...Andru probably abused him  way before anybody ever heard of Chris Hanson and dateline NBC

Yeh, I know, all Vancouver fans think that. Probably because he won so many games against them.  Truth is, every team in the NHL, including the high flying Oilers of the day coveted MacInnis more than any other defenseman in the league at the time.  mostly because of both his shot and his defensive instincts.  Unlike a Chris Chelios or Ray Bourque or Paul Coffey who expected to be treated like chiefs and would ultimately change the dynamics of the dressing room, MacInnis simply would have fit in and taken over the role given to him.  Something that Bourque learned later in his career when he was traded to Colorado and simply tried his best to fit in and resulted in his winning a cup.

Enough mental wandering.  My original point to moy is for him to go and check the career stats of MacInnis.  It's easy to do, if you don't have a reference at home just go to the NHL.COM site and punch in his name.  The internet is such a wonderful thing.  You'll find that MacInnis, even after scoring so many of his points on the power play, consistently had better plus/minus stats than any other defenseman in the game, save for Bourque who never scored any where near as many power play points as MacInnis.
a.k.a.  Nobody from the other team scored when MacInnis was on the ice.  Just thought I'd throw that out there since you were hyperfocusing on +/-

****.... I'm not hyperfocusing on +/-. The article muddy posted used it to compare Sharp to buff. That's all. For a team that scores a lot of goals he is on the ice a lot when the other team scores... that's all I said.


How about the other stuff I said like Sharp has been consistent at scoring under 70 points a season... does that matter or should we just ignore that like we do +/-. Hawks fans act like he's been an amazing player his entire career when he hasn't. He's 29. Buff is 25. They lost a good player in buff.

As for top 10 players in the nhl....(and i will assume muddy meant forwards)... guys like st.Louis, the sedin sisters, crosby, ovechkin, malkin, stamkos, backlund, Thornton, and e. Staal are better players than Kane and toews. That's just 10 off the top of my head. Like I said Richards is better than toews, but I'm not calling him a top 10 nhler despite the fact he's one of my favorite players.

I keep looking at kanes #s .... I can't seem to find anything that would make him a top 10 player.... he shoots at a 10% clip (crosby 21% this season). He's never scored more than 30 goals in a season (ovechkin has 4 seasons over 50, stamkos scored 51 at age 19 and will top it again at age 20). Kane scored over 80 points once in his career and likely will fall short of that number again this season. He has a Stanley cup but so does zetterberg and I don't think I'm hearing anyone call him a top 10 nhler and he's got better stats than kane.

As long as randle continues to spam, he will be redlined. 

3-0 flyers.... could this be our first shut out this season?

Nope ;)

Good game by the Flyers today. They went in there and played a near-perfect game against the Hawks.

Now to the Sharp/Buff debate...Did the Hawks lose good players this off-season? Absolutely. Was it because of the RFA Qualifying offer snafu? Mostly. Is Dustin Byfuglien a better player than Patrick Sharp? Well, it depends on the role they're given.

Dustin Byfuglien is a power-play beast. Big size, big shot and big hits. He brings an intense game (most nights) and is a unique combination of size and skill. That being said, even with his ability to play D and F, I believe Sharp is the more versatile player.

Now I'm not necessarily saying I think he's BETTER per se, but he can play the point on the PP, center or wing, win faceoffs, kill penalties, and he's one of the leaders on his team both on and off the ice. He brings alot of things that don't show up on a scoreboard and does alot of the little things well. He kind of reminds me of Rod Brind'Amour. Sharp will never be appreciated for what he brings by fans of other teams because they'll never see alot of what he contributes.

Byfuglien is having a career season, yes. But points and stats alone are not enough to build a team. Chicago's greatest strength last season, even moreso than their depth, was their chemistry and leadership. Losing Sharp would have affected the dressing room and thus, the team far more than losing Byfuglien, even though Buff is younger and bigger.

Now I cannot claim that Sharp is a perennial all-star because he's not. But guys like him rarely are. Rod Brind'Amour, Tomas Holmstrom and Craig MacTavish were all players who had a few good seasons, but generally not "all-star" seasons. That being said, they were all indispensable players on every team they played on.

As for the top 10 debate, for what it's worth these are my top 20 (not counting goaltenders) and that's all I'll say about that. Afcorse the only thing I'm basing this on is my own opinion, so if anyone requires justification of any choices, just let me know...

1. Sidney Crosby
2. Alexander Ovechkin
3. Pavel Datsyuk
4. Drew Doughty
5. Evgeni Malkin
6. Nicklas Backstrom
7. Henrik Zetterberg
8. Steven Stamkos
9. Henrik Sedin
10. Mike Richards
11. Jonathan Toews
12. Daniel Sedin
13. Duncan Keith
14. Eric Staal
15. Ryan Getzlaf
16. Corey Perry
17. Martin St.Louis
18. Joe Thornton
19. Shea Weber
20. Rick Nash

Injured and with honorable mention: Zach Parise

Sorry bout your bears muddy. Their own Damn fault for letting the pack in the playoffs on week 17.

Ultimately a guy like Sharp fits better with the hawks franchise mentality. I think a guy like buff would be valued higher in the flyers organization than the hawks. None the less they are both good players.