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malone9975
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Posted by snydpie on 8/22/2011 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by malone9975 on 8/22/2011 12:57:00 AM (view original):
snydpie...you are insane.

1.  You get one season, or era of a player.  You do not get a Kidd that can defend and hit the open three.  You do not get the slashing, blazing quick Pistons era Hill with the three point shooting Suns era Hill.

2.  No one has three players that can break down a D, create open shots, and have scorers that can finish all get long...lets see.  why do you need a bunch of guys that are finishers?  A couple are fine.  Role players win championships.  CP3 will kill Kidd.  Moncrief probably have the best chance of hanging with Pistol this side of Jordan and Kobe, but Pistol won't keep up on D.  Bird vs. Worthy....enough said.  McHale vs. whoever is going to be the PF.  McHale holds his own on D and will draw fouls on offense as well as shoot at a very high percentage.  Cowens is the enforcer...he isn't better than Dream and is close talent wise to Ewing, but he is the better rebounder and is tough inside.

3.  You are also talking of put Worthy at PF.  Please do.  This league demands it.

4.  How am I going to defend this team you built?  CP3 is going to steal the ball from Kidd a lot or a whole hell of a lot (depending on which Kidd you use).  Moncrief is going to do much of the same with Pistol.

5.  What is next?  Are you going to draft Bol and tell us he could be a defensive stopper at PF?  Just because you draft them doesn't make them the greatest ever.  You have some D and a lot of offense.  You are a super charged version of early 90's Golden State...congrats.  Now let's quit with the sideshows and get to the main event.
I don't see role players doin much against the talent in this league. CP3? HIS CAREER ISN'T SH!T. Paul doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Kidd at this point in his career. Kidd is one of the greatest PG's ever, Paul had 2 great seasons, WOW lets crown him and hail him King LMFAO! You have no shot blocking ability. Bird defending Worthy and Hill is a severe mismatch. Dream will kill ur front court. Dream will shut down McHale! You only have one great defensive player in Moncrief but that only goes so far in this league where the best players to ever play in the NBA reside! 

Your team is very good. I like the King pick to go with Bird but your team doesn't stand out at all.

If Golden State had players like Kidd, Dream, Ewing, Worthy, Hill, & Amare to play alongside Pistol they would've been unstoppable but they never had this kind of talent! Your G.S.comment is flat out ignorant! 
So I see you did decide to comment after all.  CP3's top season > Jason Kidd's top season.

How many times do I have to get it through all of the thickness between your ears....WE ARE DRAFTING FOR SINGLE SEASONS NOT FOR CAREERS
8/22/2011 5:36 PM
logain
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This is where I get confused.

The original thing that snydpie posted was with the intention of considering longevity in our picks. Thus, I interpreted we were aiming at a 5-10 year window for players. Like, if I was going to start a franchise who would I take.

Then when we started talking about tournaments and things.. it really doesn't make sense to play teams against each other unless you consider individual seasons.

Thus I think we are supposed to consider longevity somehow based on the original intent. But, I'm not sure how to weigh that impact.
8/22/2011 5:46 PM
logain
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here is the only information given on the matter in the original advertisement

" The basis of this draft is how great a player is/was in his prime along with how great his career was."
8/22/2011 5:47 PM
snydpie
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Posted by malone9975 on 8/22/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by snydpie on 8/22/2011 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by malone9975 on 8/22/2011 12:57:00 AM (view original):
snydpie...you are insane.

1.  You get one season, or era of a player.  You do not get a Kidd that can defend and hit the open three.  You do not get the slashing, blazing quick Pistons era Hill with the three point shooting Suns era Hill.

2.  No one has three players that can break down a D, create open shots, and have scorers that can finish all get long...lets see.  why do you need a bunch of guys that are finishers?  A couple are fine.  Role players win championships.  CP3 will kill Kidd.  Moncrief probably have the best chance of hanging with Pistol this side of Jordan and Kobe, but Pistol won't keep up on D.  Bird vs. Worthy....enough said.  McHale vs. whoever is going to be the PF.  McHale holds his own on D and will draw fouls on offense as well as shoot at a very high percentage.  Cowens is the enforcer...he isn't better than Dream and is close talent wise to Ewing, but he is the better rebounder and is tough inside.

3.  You are also talking of put Worthy at PF.  Please do.  This league demands it.

4.  How am I going to defend this team you built?  CP3 is going to steal the ball from Kidd a lot or a whole hell of a lot (depending on which Kidd you use).  Moncrief is going to do much of the same with Pistol.

5.  What is next?  Are you going to draft Bol and tell us he could be a defensive stopper at PF?  Just because you draft them doesn't make them the greatest ever.  You have some D and a lot of offense.  You are a super charged version of early 90's Golden State...congrats.  Now let's quit with the sideshows and get to the main event.
I don't see role players doin much against the talent in this league. CP3? HIS CAREER ISN'T SH!T. Paul doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Kidd at this point in his career. Kidd is one of the greatest PG's ever, Paul had 2 great seasons, WOW lets crown him and hail him King LMFAO! You have no shot blocking ability. Bird defending Worthy and Hill is a severe mismatch. Dream will kill ur front court. Dream will shut down McHale! You only have one great defensive player in Moncrief but that only goes so far in this league where the best players to ever play in the NBA reside! 

Your team is very good. I like the King pick to go with Bird but your team doesn't stand out at all.

If Golden State had players like Kidd, Dream, Ewing, Worthy, Hill, & Amare to play alongside Pistol they would've been unstoppable but they never had this kind of talent! Your G.S.comment is flat out ignorant! 
So I see you did decide to comment after all.  CP3's top season > Jason Kidd's top season.

How many times do I have to get it through all of the thickness between your ears....WE ARE DRAFTING FOR SINGLE SEASONS NOT FOR CAREERS
No we aren't and I was very clear right from the start when I started this! We are drafting players in their prime along with their careers but you obviously think otherwise! I THINK IT'S ABOUT TIME YOU CATCH UP MALONE! We are talkin about us being the GM and tryin to build a team that could win championships for many seasons not one hit wonders as stated in the original forum! During bracket time this all plays a part in how successful ur team would be against the others for many seasons.

YOU'RE NOT MAKING THE RULES CUZ UR NOT THE FOUNDER!
8/22/2011 5:48 PM
malone9975
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Then do the job as the founder you retard.  We talk about schedules for multiple days and all you want to do is tell us how Ewing is the best defensive center of the last forty years that doesn't wear a Houston jersey, and how Worthy is a defensive stopper.

The prime two years of CP3 are better that any two years of Kidd.  Kidd's prime doesn't include the 08-09 or 09-10 season when he is at his best as a three point shooter.

If you think that is his prime then fine.  You get three point shooting, solid passing, no defense Kidd

OR

You get can't shoot a lick, solid passing, great defense Kidd.  Pick one.
8/22/2011 6:01 PM
snydpie
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Kidd couldn't shoot so you say but his stats are the same from '96 on. He was a more than adequate shooter and I don't need his shooting as much as all the other great things he brings to my team!

He is and always was a great defensive player. I will put him up against any PG in NBA history from '96-'07. He was great period!

Maybe you should use CP's last 2 seasons LMFAO, what a joke! 

8/22/2011 6:29 PM
felonius
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I wish I had gotten into this league - I'm up for the next one!
8/22/2011 6:55 PM
logain
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I can only think of a couple ways to deal with the longevity vs prime thing in the tournament setting.

1. Set minutes caps on guys with less longevity. IE if a guy has less than 20k career minutes he is limited to 30 mins a game. Less than 15k minutes limited to 24 minutes a game. (Where did those numbers come from? Thin air)

2. We could base the seeding on longevity. The team with the starting 5 with the most career minutes is the number 1 seed and gets homecourt advantage - which we will need to weight.

Overall, for tourney purposes I think everyone will need to select 1 season of the player to use.
8/22/2011 6:57 PM
logain
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Posted by felonius on 8/22/2011 6:55:00 PM (view original):
I wish I had gotten into this league - I'm up for the next one!
I think doing something similar with the rules more clearly defined from the start would be a good idea.. especially for october or so if there is no nba season going on.. 
8/22/2011 6:59 PM
dh555
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Posted by malone9975 on 8/22/2011 6:01:00 PM (view original):
Then do the job as the founder you retard.  We talk about schedules for multiple days and all you want to do is tell us how Ewing is the best defensive center of the last forty years that doesn't wear a Houston jersey, and how Worthy is a defensive stopper.

The prime two years of CP3 are better that any two years of Kidd.  Kidd's prime doesn't include the 08-09 or 09-10 season when he is at his best as a three point shooter.

If you think that is his prime then fine.  You get three point shooting, solid passing, no defense Kidd

OR

You get can't shoot a lick, solid passing, great defense Kidd.  Pick one.
need to weigh in here on the cp3/kidd debate.....

malone...no defense kidd?.....the guy was guarding kobe, wade and lebron in the playoffs and did a good job...pretty amazing considering his age....but as you or someone else mentioned he cant really hang with quicker point guards anymore

snydpie....kidd got much better at shooting 3s as his career went on.....malone is right, you cant have the kidd that is lightning quick and the kidd that can hit an open 3....just like i cant have the wilt that can drop 50 a night and the wilt that can dish out 8 dimes a night

as for cp3....snydpie you are nuts if you dont think the he is already one of the greatest point guards ever....did you see what he did to the defending champs this year in the playoffs?....i know his career is an unfinished product when compared to kidd but if we are comparing primes then cp3 is the more complete and better point guard
8/22/2011 7:45 PM
dh555
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Posted by logain on 8/22/2011 5:46:00 PM (view original):
This is where I get confused.

The original thing that snydpie posted was with the intention of considering longevity in our picks. Thus, I interpreted we were aiming at a 5-10 year window for players. Like, if I was going to start a franchise who would I take.

Then when we started talking about tournaments and things.. it really doesn't make sense to play teams against each other unless you consider individual seasons.

Thus I think we are supposed to consider longevity somehow based on the original intent. But, I'm not sure how to weigh that impact.
i think most of us are confused about this....


heres what i think we should absolutely do:

- have each owner rank all the teams 1-16 based on the original premise which was how great a player is/was in his prime along with how great his career was...the owners will have to decide for themselves how to properly mix the two when deciding...for example: i would consider bill walton a better pick then alonzo mourning based on the fact that waltons prime was so great

- have each owner sitemail the rankings to the commish or someone else(i nominate logain) to tally up the results and post them in the forum....from that we will have our overall, original idea winner

- then break the teams into the tournament we were talking about with the seedings already figured out from the rankings we just did...for the tourney we will be considering head to head matchups so you need to specify which season(or point in their career like early bucks kareem or something like that) you are using of each player



i think this would be most fun and would satisfy everyone...thoughts?
8/22/2011 8:05 PM
longtallbrad
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Pretty much exactly what I was going to propose, dh.  I like it.  As a slight friendly amendment, the 1-16 rankings (the effort to do exactly what snydpie created the league for) could be posted in the forum to spark debate along the way.  Or not. 

And then we run the tournament.  If anyone wants to bail on the tournament, that doesn't need to hold up the willing.  It just means that the abandoned team might suffer from lack of an active GM to argue their case.
8/22/2011 8:16 PM
longtallbrad
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Posted by eleibowitz on 8/22/2011 5:23:00 PM (view original):
Ive been following this thread and love the arguments!!  Keep it up!  Snydie you are putting Worthy at PF?  I think that's his natural postion, playing out of position all those years in LA!  Ewing one of the best defesive centers ever??  Absolutely!  Amazing foot speed!

I assume you're being sarcastic, but Worthy did play PF at times and is considered a combo forward by many analysts and hoops historians.  I wouldn't say PF is his natural or best position, especially on defense, but it's not crazy to give him minutes there. 

Ewing is getting bashed in this thread because of some - perhaps - overly enthusiastic claims.  But he certainly was one of the best defensive centers of his era, and in any case was no slouch on the defensive end.  If he were in his prime today or anytime in the past 10-12 years it would be easy to say he's second best center in the league at worst.  Just kind of his weird misfortune to play during the golden era of real centers.  As a defender, he was a step behind Robinson and two steps behind Olajuwon.  No one seems to remember that he was thought of as a great defender coming out of college.  His career just evolved differently than expected.
8/22/2011 8:22 PM
jayharvill
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Its my pick for 2, but I can't keep up with who has been chosen and who hasn't(first page hasn't been updated for awhile)

When it is updated, will someone please sitemail me and I'll make my 2 picks
8/22/2011 8:29 PM
badja
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Jay- look at page 39
8/22/2011 8:48 PM
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