MLD World Thread #2 - Page 45 - Theme Leagues

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I ditto that - fully agree with yogs that warehousing have become a too important factor in playoffs lately. Something must be done to address the issue. I also know I'm probably one of the GMs that have been guilty of keeping a large number of my (on paper) best vets around for playoffs. Still haven't won any championships since season 12 though. And last season I faced a smythe rival in the semis that killed me both on paper and in the series. This season I'm able to skate 6 x 100 on D in the playoffs. Maybe that’s wrong of me, but I'm a competitive bastard and have only done the best I can to build a solid base of key players within the league rules. Maybe we should have addressed this warehousing issue earlier on, but all along it has been agreed upon as part of the game - a nice touch - having vets using up roster space or replacing him for rookie for the future. It does bother me a lot to hear damag's take on it all...giving up playing for cups entirely. Something's gotta be done for sure, and yogs suggestion of limiting # of WH players in playoffs sounds fair to me and could be something we could implement fast, if agreed upon league wide.

3/2/2010 10:31 PM

damag

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Funny how we're complaining about a practice that most of us participate in to one degree or another. Just like real team owners.

Perhaps we should just blame it on the players and complete the experience.

IMO I have no problem with knowing who the best teams are and seeing them win. Beats the hell out of that 6 seed vs. 7 seed crap we used to have far too often.

And BTW "my take" has nothing to do with warehousing on my part or anyone else's. I realized long ago that all I can decide is who's on my roster.

3/3/2010 6:16 AM

yogsloth

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Quote: Originally Posted By damag on 3/03/2010
Funny how we're complaining about a practice that most of us participate in to one degree or another. Just like real team owners.

Perhaps we should just blame it on the players and complete the experience.

lol. Hit that one on the head.

Please note damag - and everyone else - I'm not trying to call out any specific owner, and my "tone" shouldn't be construed as nasty. All anybody is doing is following the rules, and like you said, I'm not immune to the practice myself. Although I generally only warehouse one D and one F spot per season, Torpedo is going to play until he's 90! (That's years old, not stamina!)

Glad to see there's some agreement on this issue. I don't think any solution we arrive upon will be too hard to enforce, as we've got a pretty damn good group of owners here, and it wouldn't take much double-checking to make sure of who's meeting the rules.

3/3/2010 10:08 AM

onekrazypuck

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Hey guys, don't have much time right now to read all the messages about this, I'll read them over later on this evening.... but just wanted to let you guys know....

A few GMs privately contacted me via sitemail in the last few weeks voicing their concern and frustration over the "extreme warehousing". I told them, I will be looking into addressing it in the near future, with a possible rule change.

As with all rule changes in the MLD, it won't take effect right away, everyone will have a few seasons notice to prepare their franchises for the rule tweak...... also, as usual, any rule change that we come up with has to get a solid(majority) approval from every MLD GM.....

Just letting you know, I am aware of the situation and will be addressing and looking to solve/correct it early next season.(Yr20), with a community discussion and eventual rule change coming no later than approx Yr22.

(I'm glad to see others are irked with the current warehousing setup in addition to the handful of GMs who privately contacted me....gives me more reason to look into tweaking the rule) (I'm also a guilty warehouser...still have originals from season 1 on my roster but I always have this gut feeling there should be some sort of rule to limit it...

Cheers

(((PS On a side note, my wife underwent her 4th of a planned 6 treatments today..:) she is doing good and we're in the home stretch! Once she has had her 6th, she moves onto a totally different treatment, but hey, we're progressing! :)))) thanks for all the well wishes guys!

3/3/2010 2:46 PM

damag

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With all, and I mean, ALL respect to the commissioner... I find it distasteful that on the eve of the Finals, the assembled ownership of this league sends a tacit message to the two finalists that we feel that they somehow don't deserve to be there.

Sorry fellas, I'm not signing that letter.

3/4/2010 5:46 AM

onekrazypuck

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I hope and suspect that is not the case. Personally, I feel and I think others will agree that the current and any MLD finalists deserve to be where they are.

I just wanted to put it out there that we'll soon be having a look at our current no-limits warehousing setup is on the agenda. Was actually planning on mentioning it in the annual season wrapup sitemail.... but since I saw this discussion pop up, I thought I'd respond to these public inquiries just as I have been doing to the private ones, letting it be known that our current no-limits warehousing setup is going to dealt with and addressed/fixed in the near future.

3/4/2010 9:04 AM

onekrazypuck

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On a side note... and not trying to get the current discussion off track...but being a guilty GM myself to warehousing which leaves me with a guilty conscious, I have been secretly wondering about something the last season or so.... perhaps warehousing is not the best strategy to use anymore....

Since the MLD began, we all seem to participate in warehousing in some shape or form.....some use it sparringly while some go all out and stack the warehouse to the roof.

When we upgraded to the newest sim engine back in season 16, with it came the new-to-the-MLD factor where players improved even when they weren't playing. I've thought alot about this since it came to exist in our MLD.

Since players improve no matter what, although less frequently when not playing, wouldn't it make sense to "warehouse" rookies to allow them and their skills to improve..with the thinking being you could possibly have a player bulk up his skill levels without officially playing any seasons towards his career? And then after a few seasons of non-seasons, you have a decent player who can then play out 6 full seasons with a better skillset to help the team on a full time basis.

Kinda like the opposite of current warehousing strategy used by some of us....but its seems neat in that it has a feel to it as if you are allowing your talent to develop in the minors before bringing them up to the bigs to start their careers and be better players.

I am curious to know what you guys think about this.....I've wondered about it for awhile now and was even considering giving it a try a few times...but I end up chickening out and sticking to my old tried and true familiar ways. lol

I actually kinda did give this theory a test with one of my players....until this season where I messed up and allowed him to go beyond the 20 game mark..... have a look at Kingston's Bobby Dylan http://www.whatifsports.com/nhl-l/indiv_player.asp?tid=122922&pid=5915495
No official career years til this season's oversight but this late round draft pick is/was quietly developing into a decent player... his def rating was in the 30s when I drafted him.

3/4/2010 9:28 AM

onekrazypuck

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Quote: Originally Posted By onekrazypuck on 3/04/2010
I hope and suspect that is not the case. Personally, I feel and I think others will agree that the current and any MLD finalists deserve to be where they are.

I just wanted to put it out there that we'll soon be having a look at our current no-limits warehousing setup is on the agenda. Was actually planning on mentioning it in the annual season wrapup sitemail.... but since I saw this discussion pop up, I thought I'd respond to these public inquiries just as I have been doing to the private ones, letting it be known that our current no-limits warehousing setup is going to dealt with and addressed/fixed in the near future.

My original plan is to propose a limit on the # of warehoused seasons any given skater can have....of say 4, 5 or 6 seasons. Say we used 4, a player can only be warehoused/developed for 3 seasons max..... if he reaches 4 seasons of warehousing, he is forced to retire....aka give up his aspirations of making it to the big MLD club.

If we installed a rule like this, it would end the limitless playing careers some skaters are currently enjoying. Admin might even be able to help us out with this.....they created a script for us that ensured salary increases for 20+ games played...perhaps they can tweak that same script to give MASSIVE 5-10 million unit increases to any player(s) who depending on whatever we decided on, say 4 seasons, have 4 seasons or less than 19 regular season games.... to make it easier for the GM to spot and manage....(like for example if I see Joe Smith just got a salary bump up to 5,683,212...seeing that huge amount, I know that Joe Smith has used up all his warehoused 19 and under seasons and must be retired)

One thing I really wanted with this league when I created it was to have every roster constantly turning over......hence the retirement setup which has worked great thus far. I completely overlooked the fact that players could essentially play forever if they avoided playing that 20th regular season game of their 6th career counting season.

As for the suggestion to having certain skaters or certain number of skaters eligible to play come playoff time...I worry that policing who can and cannot play in playoffs might be a difficult thing to monitor even with aour solid group of GMs..plus it still doesn't address the aspect that players can play/live forever under our current setup.

I dunno, just typing/thinking out loud. :)

3/4/2010 9:49 AM

rammers

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Drafted this guy in front of season 15.......

http://www.whatifsports.com/nhl-l/indiv_player.asp?tid=122934&pid=6085823

Nobody took him, so I think I picked him up in round 4 or 5.

D-man with 29 in stamina and 95 in def rating back then.

Been playing short seasons due to serious health issues.

3/4/2010 10:08 AM

rammers

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I guess this is an easier rule to police as commissioner okp, but I kinda like what yogs suggested in the first post on the WH issue. Limit the # of WH players in playoffs to 3 or something, would make sure WH'ing will not be that big of a deal in the future. Sure, certain players could "live" in the game forever, but then again it's up to the GM to carry more vets than able to play in playoffs. Maybe it would be a question/issue of warehousing for future FPs... But this would be an easier change to implement fast, if agreed upon, and it will also make sure that GMs who are way too attached to their cyber old timers (than they should be...?), can keep them on board as they like, but still not dress more than (let's say) 3 in each playoff game. Gentleman agreement. If all players MUST retire after 10 (6+4) seasons regardless, I fear quite a few GM will not be able to plan for the future as well as they should. Spot a HUGE salary jump after the 10th season will be too late having no more than 6 players to hit the road at once. I dunno, just typing/thinking out loud too, lol.

3/4/2010 10:39 AM

damag

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Why not simply enact a rule that any player who hasn't played 20 games - thus earning a full season of MLD service - is ineligible for postseason competition?

What if a player gets injured during the playoffs? Well, this would force owners to get their non-starting players out of the pressbox for a minimum number of games. But, if you have 20 players who can go 82 games, they really aren't likely to get injured in the playoffs anyway.

Use of an ineligible player would result in automatic loss of a playoff round. Seriously.

3/4/2010 10:51 AM

onekrazypuck

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Quote: Originally posted by damag on 3/04/2010Why not simply enact a rule that any player who hasn't played 20 games - thus earning a full season of MLD service - is ineligible for postseason competition?What if a player gets injured during the playoffs? Well, this would force owners to get their non-starting players out of the pressbox for a minimum number of games. But, if you have 20 players who can go 82 games, they really aren't likely to get injured in the playoffs anyway.Use of an ineligible player would result in automatic loss of a playoff round. Seriously.

I like it, but auto playoff round loss sounds too harsh, oversights sometimes happen

3/4/2010 3:48 PM

damag

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Perhaps, but even in real life teams have to declare playoff rosters before they start. That's all we're really talking about here, just depends on how we want to enact it.

3/4/2010 5:27 PM

yogsloth

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Quote: Originally Posted By damag on 3/04/2010

With all, and I mean, ALL respect to the commissioner... I find it distasteful that on the eve of the Finals, the assembled ownership of this league sends a tacit message to the two finalists that we feel that they somehow don't deserve to be there.

Sorry fellas, I'm not signing that letter.

I don't think that's the message! At least, that's not the message I'm trying to send my opening this up for discussion. You've played within the rules and are making it work... good on ya. It's got nothing to do with "deserving" to be there.

I think what people are saying is that the spirit of the league has gotten a little astray, and some rule-nudging is needed to get back on track. That's all.

And yes, okp, thanks a lot for blowing the secret of "cooking" rookies in the minors first.

Whatever rule changes we have shouldn't be too drastic... Look, most people develop an affection for one or two players on their roster. Russell Moorehead, Kaspars Torppala, John Thatcher... these guys are going to be playing even after they draw social security. I don't think we want to kill all ability to warehouse players... it's not the one or two guys per team that's a problem... it's the 12-15 players on one team that needs to be addressed.

3/5/2010 10:46 AM

onekrazypuck

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Had another idea I thought I'd throw out here, how about limiting the # of playoff seasons any given skater can play to 10 seasons. If Joe Schmo makes an appearence in 10 different playoff years, he's reached the end up his MLD career and must retire. (FPs are exempt)

Even though it seems like the unpopular decision, I still really hope for a solution that will make it so that every player will retire at some point, the current neverending career setup of being able to play the near perfect oldtimers every playoffs....just seems off from the realistic side of things.

As a bonus, with the above idea, GMs can and still would be able to hang on to their beloved oldies, just as long as they didn't/don't skate them in the playoffs but in doing so, their sacraficing a roster spot.....whether or not it would it be worth it would be up to the individual GM to decide.

3/5/2010 11:37 AM

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