**READ** Home Field Advantage! Topic

tecwrg
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Oh, I get it now.

SWAMPHAWK22 IS THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX!!!!!!!!
7/19/2009 8:52 PM
dpatteson7
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Quote: Originally posted by AlCheez on 7/19/2009I'd like to see some evidence that it's even happened.  I mean, there are start/sit decisions made frequently based on park, opponent, etc (all things that are currently considerations within the game), but I really don't recall hearing too much about switches being made based on some intangible HFA.Besides, if HFA in HBD is what he's arguing for, which is a bump to the entire team, why would it even make sense to do what's being described?  Sure, bench player A will play better at home than on the road, but so will the starter he's replacing - it's a wash.  Those kind of decisions, at least for someone who knows what they are doing, would still come down to park, opponent, etc. For the record, I think that HFA is very real in baseball, if perhaps not as pronounced as in basketball, football, etc, but I don't necessarily think that means it's the best idea to put it into the game. We all want a realistic game, but I don't think adding realism for realism's sake always makes the game better. 
If we were logical, this post would end the discussion.
7/19/2009 9:03 PM
bfkfraser
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Quote: Originally Posted By dpatteson7 on 7/19/2009
Quote: Originally posted by AlCheez on 7/19/2009
I'd like to see some evidence that it's even happened. I mean, there are start/sit decisions made frequently based on park, opponent, etc (all things that are currently considerations within the game), but I really don't recall hearing too much about switches being made based on some intangible HFA.

Besides, if HFA in HBD is what he's arguing for, which is a bump to the entire team, why would it even make sense to do what's being described? Sure, bench player A will play better at home than on the road, but so will the starter he's replacing - it's a wash. Those kind of decisions, at least for someone who knows what they are doing, would still come down to park, opponent, etc.

For the record, I think that HFA is very real in baseball, if perhaps not as pronounced as in basketball, football, etc, but I don't necessarily think that means it's the best idea to put it into the game. We all want a realistic game, but I don't think adding realism for realism's sake always makes the game better.
If we were logical, this post would end the discussion
Any decision to sit/start a player is usually determined upon your expectations of your opponent. You may consider home/away in terms of "I have the advantage since his team does not fit well in my park" But, most often, the decision on when to rest a player is when matchups fit best for the benefit of the team.
7/19/2009 9:11 PM
tecwrg
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I've done the opposite, occasionally starting my low splits/high power slugger in a road park such as Durham or Colorado.
7/19/2009 10:07 PM
swamphawk22
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Again this is not something everyone will do, just another level of strategy.

I want any of the nay sayers to tell me anything bad you think will come out of this.

Not we need other things more, or it isnt important. An actual negative?
7/20/2009 1:40 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 7/20/2009
Again this is not something everyone will do, just another level of strategy.

I want any of the nay sayers to tell me anything bad you think will come out of this.

Not we need other things more, or it isnt important. An actual negative?

How does one quantify an unquantifiable concept?
7/20/2009 2:06 PM
MikeT23
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The "bad" is the lesser team winning more often at home due to some undefinable advantage that's been programmed into the outcome.
7/20/2009 2:09 PM
bfkfraser
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Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 7/20/2009
Again this is not something everyone will do, just another level of strategy.

I want any of the nay sayers to tell me anything bad you think will come out of this.

Not we need other things more, or it isnt important. An actual negative?

First, there is no positive added - just a bastardization of something that exists. No additional strategy. You already can rest players based upon home stadium advantage or road disadvatage if you so choose.

To add a quantifiable thing to something so miniscule at most, is just asking for trouble. First, there is no real benefit other than taking some skill out of the game. Chances are the better team will mostly win, but they will now be tougher to beat at home and are good enough to win on the road regardless. New coaches will be at a bigger disadvantage as they will struggle more on the road and veteran coaches will overcome it.

Plus, I do not write code, but could there be unforeseen circumstances that could be detrimental to the game. All for something that would not be a benefit.

7/20/2009 2:43 PM
snake_p
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I hate to be the one to say, "I told you so," but swamp, I told you you needed more CAPITAL LETTERS. Your argument has just completely fallen apart when you tried to think it through and quit using CAPITAL LETTERS. There is no sense to your argument, swamp, you need CAPS ...

* * * * CAPITAL LETTERS RULE * * * *

* * * * SWAMP, GOOD FOR GEORGIA, GOOD FOR DOGCATCHER, GOOD FOR LUNCH * * * *

* * * * POLITICAL SLOGANS OVERCOME ALL THOUGHT * * * *

* * * * SWAMP WINS ! ! ! ! * * * *
7/20/2009 2:56 PM
AlCheez
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Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 7/20/2009
Again this is not something everyone will do, just another level of strategy.

I want any of the nay sayers to tell me anything bad you think will come out of this.

Not we need other things more, or it isnt important. An actual negative?



How about explaining a reason why ANYONE would do it if HFA provides a universal bump to all players on a team?

Why would a HFA bump be a reason to start a guy ahead of a normal starter (who is presumably better since he's the normal starter) if the regular starter gets the exact same HFA bump? More simply put: Why would something affects everyone in your lineup equally make a change in how you set your lineup?

A favorable park or pitching matchup would be a great reason for such a move, but again, these are already in the game.

Bad to come of it? How about making it even more likely that those often crappy #4 seed division winners knock off a much better #5 seed wild card? (A setup that, by the way, is the result of realism for the sake of realism, and out of context realism at that)
7/20/2009 5:19 PM
eeyore1959
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The only "home field advantage" there really is already exists in the game. That is the home team batting last. Reason rules, wild erratic rhetoric doesn't win.
7/20/2009 8:41 PM
schuyler101
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I think the big problem in this thread is that alot of people don't really believe that there is a real HFA in RL MLB, one that goes beyond tailoring a team to it's home park and getting last bats.

I find that level of ignorance a little shocking

Or is there just a very ignorant and vocal minority?

Real life MLB teams do not place that high a priority on tailoring teams to their ballpark. Not enough to result in the HFA that we see.

The facts are this:

HBD teams regularly have better records on the road than at home (13 out of 32 in my world, I welcome others to look at other worlds, I promise you no world comes close to replicating real life)

RL MLB teams almost never do (1 in the last 2 seasons)

RL MLB home winning % has been between 52% and 55% for 19 of the the last 20 years

http://cyrilmorong.com/HomeRoad.htm

This is not a fact but my hunch is that the HBD home winning % cannot be much more than 1% away from 50.

Because of these factors a team that works hard for HFA throughout the playoffs has it negated because it is a negligible advantage, if at all.
7/20/2009 9:01 PM
lomac
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What if my Tampa Bay player is playing in his home city of New York?

Should he get an Hometown advantage?
7/20/2009 9:57 PM
tecwrg
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I'm guessing that the better team should win more than 50% of their games against a lesser team.

Perhaps the time that's being spent by the vocal few who are lobbying for HFA might be better spent in trying to become a little bit better than their opponents.
7/20/2009 10:13 PM
schuyler101
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A generic HFA would be consistent with how HBD has handled other feature of this game.

In some ways they encourage parity so it doesn't become impossible to draw owners to perennial losers and trashed teams. The HFA couldn't be something in which better teams or cities accumulate a significant advantage.

Basically give every team the same HFA, one that results in the home team winning about 55% of the time.

That way the advantage is negated in the regular season (equal number of home/away) and really only comes into play in the postseason when one team has earned HFA
7/20/2009 10:31 PM
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