Posted by deathinahole on 11/12/2010 9:31:00 PM (view original):
plague is making the argument for those that only sign their own 6 year FAs.

aka. the lazy.

That's a idiotic statement. If you  sign other teams career minor leaguers you are not lazy? Is there some skill I don't know about in signing career minor leaguers that I am unaware? Please enlighten me unless you desire to keep this advantage to yourself,  because I don't want to be branded lazy, I want to spend even more worthless time sitting on my active butt at this computer signing career minor leaguers.

I'll repeat this because you seem to misunderstand.

You make one offer.   They accept or they don't.   After FA and during ST, you sign players who are left. 

Now, I'll break it down.
You make one offer.     Pretty self-explanatory.
They accept or they don't.   Also pretty self-explanatory.
After FA and during ST, you sign players who are left.    In other words, you check in after FA is over and adjust.

At the end of the day, you have 7 days, let's call it "Spring Training", to fill out your minors.  No muss, no fuss.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/12/2010 8:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by plague on 11/12/2010 8:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/12/2010 8:20:00 PM (view original):
How will there be zero available position players?  All 6 year FA will be available.

You make one offer.   They accept or they don't.   After FA and during ST, you sign players who are left.    It's not like you want to invite 6 year FA to ST.   That gives you 7 days to figure it out.   I know you may not have access all day but do you think you have access for 10 minutes a week?

You are wrong. During the free agency period that occurs early in the season players don't make decisions on the first cycle that you make the offer. If you wait until after the free agent negotiation period (when players will accept on the first cycle you offer them) it's possible all the minor league free agents will be signed by other teams, which I have seen happen multiple times.

Currently.

Simpler-all players sign on the first cycle.

Faster-they all do it one cycle before the free agent negotiation period even begins.

More time to assign and promote players-It happens before free agent negotiation period.

I don't see how you can argue that, but you do it anyway.

I'll repeat this because you seem to misunderstand.

You make one offer.   They accept or they don't.   After FA and during ST, you sign players who are left. 

Now, I'll break it down.
You make one offer.     Pretty self-explanatory.
They accept or they don't.   Also pretty self-explanatory.
After FA and during ST, you sign players who are left.    In other words, you check in after FA is over and adjust.

At the end of the day, you have 7 days, let's call it "Spring Training", to fill out your minors.  No muss, no fuss.

I will repeat myself since you seem to not understand.

Am I going to get every single player that I make a offer too?

Are you guaranteeing that there will be players left during ST?

Is this going to take me more than the 15 seconds that I currently spend resigning my free agents and also get me every minor league free agent I offer a contract?

Why do you continue a argument that you are wrong. I spend 15-30 seconds on 1 cycle offering all my own players a contract, I get every single player I offer a contract in return on the very NEXT cycle, , your method you do not, I get 13 days doing it my way instead of 7 days your way. I don't give a rats *** if you think 7 days is plenty. There is not 1 benefit in your method compared to the way it was. If these free agents meant something I could understand, but we are talking about career minor leaguers, fillers for the lower levels. I don't want to spend wasted time on career minor leaguers.

UNEEDED WASTED TIME ON CAREER MINOR LEAGUERS.

While I am normally in disagreement with plague's opinions, this is a case where he is absolutely correct.

1) I have not heard ONE compelling reason why we need this change.  I read all of the reasons stated here and I didn't find one remotely worthy of instituting this change. 
2) I now get to waste more time on signing minor league FAs. 
3) Now we get to deal with even more broken minor league systems.

I think this is a stupid and unneeded update.  

No one is arguing that it's something that is needed.  My point has been "Why is this a big deal?"   Some owners are acting as if this is the end of the world.   It isn't.   With all 6 year FA on the market, those who care about their minor leagues will have more options.   Those that don't care, don't matter.  They weren't going to care more or less either way.   As I said before, complaining about this is akin to complaining if WifS shortened the rookie season by three games.  It's irrelevant. 

And yes, plague, I am guaranteeing minor league FA will be left during ST.   Lots of them.

1.  mlhutch +1
2.  Mike-- I have been in worlds where there were no minor league catchers left during ST.  If you're OK with LFs playing catcher your point is correct.

For experienced players in élite worlds this is, indeed, trivial.  But for new players who are on the steep learning curve, it's just one more reason for them to throw up their hands in despair as they find one more thing that's harder to do than it needs to be.

You haven't been in a world where all 6 year free agents were on the open market, have you?

Posted by tecwrg on 11/12/2010 11:25:00 AM (view original):
"With 20-25 new draftees in Rookie Ball every year, it's hard not to have enough players available."

Except the 6 yr minor league FA's are usually from AAA or AA - I personally don't want to fill my AAA team with Rookie League players - especially my top prospects that I want to bring along slowly.  

Oh, for God's sake.  It's really simple.

You get 20-25 new players each season.  Year 1, they're in RL.  Year 2, they're in LoA, year 3, they're in HiA, year 4 they're in AA, years 5 and 6, they're in AAA.

For your "real" prospects, the guys with major league potential, you might want them on a slightly different timetable, as you see fit.

"Once you see Rule 5 eligible players below AA, you know someone's not promoting properly."

I don't think this is necessarily true - why do you need to "properly promote" minor league filler that's never going to reach the majors?  If it's a Major League prospect then I agree with your point .

It's absolutely true (see above).  If you don't promote your guys, even the crap, they you risk lots of retirements at the lower levels, thus depleting your world of minor league filler.  Which is the primary reason whay a lack of minor league free agents is such a pervasive problem in HBD.  Seriously, using advanced roster moves, it can be done in 10-15 minutes at the end of every season.  That's 10-15 minutes of your time every three months.

I think the problem that I feel with this change is that I've already invested that time into developing my minors.  If your "good" minor league players are still there after 6 yrs (and not worthy of a 40 spot), you've already done your job in staving off retirement for a guy that you obviously don't have any ML aspirations for.  For him to still have been on the roster, he is good enough not to have been replaced (promotions or FA's), but not good enough to think that they're worthy of a major league contract. 

They haven't retired (they're not miserable with the franchise) and are career minor leaguers (not protected or requesting a ML contract).  Why would you change from a 1-step "mass keep" while there is less to do (1 day to re-sign FA's) to a busier time while your also trying to monitor your real FA and coach offers every 4 hrs.

And lost in the argument of whether this is a negative change or meaningless change is that many seem to be unclear what the desired outcomes are supposed to be.

Posted by mlhutch on 11/13/2010 9:13:00 AM (view original):
While I am normally in disagreement with plague's opinions, this is a case where he is absolutely correct.

1) I have not heard ONE compelling reason why we need this change.  I read all of the reasons stated here and I didn't find one remotely worthy of instituting this change. 
2) I now get to waste more time on signing minor league FAs. 
3) Now we get to deal with even more broken minor league systems.

I think this is a stupid and unneeded update.  

Realism? Might not be the most compelling but it's a reason.

I think most of us could care one way or another but it's not the end of the world. Lately, I've been not signing the 6 yr. minor league Free agents who left and just promote within. As someone mentioned earlier, fill AAA holes with AA players, fill AA holes with High A players etc. Then I sign all my draft picks for rookie ball. I always make sure I draft the defensive SS and C's and my organization is good to go.

It's a good idea to sign all draft picks, assuming you have the money, whether they're any good or not. Exception: if a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick was in a bad draft class and you want a D pick the following year (assuming you attempted to sign).

And I get a kick on Mike's "You Seem To Misunderstand" posts. Do another Mike.