Posted by usfbully on 3/30/2011 2:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/30/2011 9:47:00 AM (view original):
I know I'm getting off-topic(but this pretty much seems resolved) but have you guys seen the killer whales training their young how to hunt?   There's a seal on a small iceberg.    One "peeks" to get his position, makes a whale noise and 4-5 others rush the iceberg then dive at the last moment to create a wave in order to wash the seal off the berg.   It's pretty awesome.  

FYI, tec's link had a whale vs. seal video on the side.

There are tons of great Orca hunting videos. They have video of Orcas drowning a baby grey whale by seperating it from mom and jumping on the babies back. They have video of Orcas "playing with their food" throwing seals and penguins into the air long after they are dead just for the hell of it.

The video next to tec's link(which brought the wave hunting to mind) was of two playing with a live seal by flipping it in the air.   They let it go or so the video said.

  I can see why most people don't want to get involved in this dicussion, because the forums bullies take over and tell you what the answer is. It's interesting to see how mature some of the posters act in these chat rooms. I've actually read a couple valid points, but this immature name calling and such should be left in elementary school or maybe even junior high.

  I know Miket23 can't see any similarities in the trades I pointed out, but where is the similarities when Oakland was trading MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYERS for cash, not prospects for cash. But again, what color is the sky? Were the prospects going to affect the outcome of the world series?

  If there is such an obvious answer to this question, why hasn't WIS written it in the rules?

  If some other team in my league had of have offered more then the $4.7 million I was offering, or a better minor leaguer & cash in return then I was offering, I would have been fine with the deal. The Owner openly announced in the chat room that he wanted to either trade one of his veterans, or he would trade a prospect for cash. 1 week went bye, and he chose my deal. Not a word was mentioned in the chat room that trading prospects for cash wasn't allowed. Until the deal was accepted, then the junior high school talk started and the trade got vetoed.

  I truly wonder if the reason others are voting these deals down is because it isn't making their teams better? Is Jealousy a reason to Veto?

  I'm going to go through these pages and summarize the good points in favor, and the good points against. Although there aren't enough to stat the list just yet.

Regards

Posted by tecwrg on 3/29/2011 9:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hoser1 on 3/29/2011 8:04:00 PM (view original):
  I thought that HBD was supposed to be close to managing a MLB franchise? I know I've seen my Washington Nats sell players to other franchises. I've never seen or heard MLB GM's go off on a tangent or have fits over the matter. They just keep doing business as normal, not the same for HBD owners though!

  The definition of a trade is the exchange of goods for money, or goods for goods. I still stand by my statement that it is my $185 million, I want to spend it anyway I want to. I might have missed out on that Intl Free agent, and I still want to use my money elsewhere. I think managers should be allowed to be creative with their cash, HBD allows the transferring of funds to a couple areas, maybe they should open up the transfer to all areas of the budget. For example: Allow the money to be transfered to scouting budgets and such.

 

1)  When did MLB institute a budget cap?  Until that happens, you really cannot compare the financial aspect of running an HBD franchise to running an MLB franchise.

2)  Some HBD worlds are perfectly fine with letting you spend your $185m any way you want to.  Others do not.  There are around 170 worlds out there.  I'm sure you'll fit right in to some.  Others, not so much.

It's interesting how the people who have opposing viewpoints to your own are labeled the "forum bullies".

As far as making your list of good points, you can probably start and end right here, with point #2 above.  Because in the end, that's the ONLY thing that matters.  Playing in worlds with 31 other owners who have a similar way of thinking as you do in their approach to the game.

 I don't think I was calling everybody a bully, and I will definitely consider #2 going forward. Thanks for the input!

  Imagine that a valid point was maid without pointing out that I  was a retard?

You started a thread that was patently incorrect in it's facts.

I disagree with cash in trades, but that's a debate when each side understands their side, and understands that this is not comparable to MLB in anyway shape or form, I accept that there is a difference in opinion.

I'd just try to avoid being in a league with those people.

However, when the thread owner seems to lack the understanding in what he's saying, I have little issue with said thread owner having a new one ripped open.

Because, some poor newbiw sap is reading these forums trying to gain info.

  Why Don't I understand what I'm saying Deathinahole? Because we differ in opinions?

  I still haven't seen any reason why you disagree other then the fact "I don't understand" 

"Forum bully" always makes me laugh.   Even more so now that you have the ability to block that mean internet guy who is pushing your around.

The problem you have here, and in your world, is that most knowledgeable owners don't like heavy cash deals for several reasons.   I won't list them again as they've been covered already.   And there are owners who have no issue with them so let's not pretend there's a "right" answer. 

That said, in the future, don't ask a question if you just want confirmation.   People will disagree with you.  When they do and ask you to prove your claim, don't halfass it with some 300k sale of a 10 year vet when you're trying to buy a prospect for 4.7m.   Additionally comparing budgetary aspects of this game with MLB is a non-starter. 

Hope this helps.

MikeT enlightens another patron of the forums:

I do what I can when I can.

It might help if you just ended every post with:

JUST DO WHAT I SAY, PUNK!!!

Posted by hoser1 on 3/30/2011 9:08:00 PM (view original):
  Why Don't I understand what I'm saying Deathinahole? Because we differ in opinions?

  I still haven't seen any reason why you disagree other then the fact "I don't understand" 

Opinion = "I think cash in trades is ok", which we can debate.

"Look, MLB allows it" is an apples to oranges comparions and utterly incorrect.

If the Pittsburgh Pirates get $5M in a trade, they do not get a $5M cap advantage over other teams in the league. It's just money.

In HBD, you do.

Thus, for bring that analogy in, you get the proverbial trout to the head.

Would you accept it, would you veto it, is the opinion part of the discussion.

+ I think I said that once or twice already, so if you didn't see the reason, then the trout temporarily blinded you.

Posted by hoser1 on 3/30/2011 8:09:00 PM (view original):
  I can see why most people don't want to get involved in this dicussion, because the forums bullies take over and tell you what the answer is. It's interesting to see how mature some of the posters act in these chat rooms. I've actually read a couple valid points, but this immature name calling and such should be left in elementary school or maybe even junior high.

  I know Miket23 can't see any similarities in the trades I pointed out, but where is the similarities when Oakland was trading MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYERS for cash, not prospects for cash. But again, what color is the sky? Were the prospects going to affect the outcome of the world series?

  If there is such an obvious answer to this question, why hasn't WIS written it in the rules?

  If some other team in my league had of have offered more then the $4.7 million I was offering, or a better minor leaguer & cash in return then I was offering, I would have been fine with the deal. The Owner openly announced in the chat room that he wanted to either trade one of his veterans, or he would trade a prospect for cash. 1 week went bye, and he chose my deal. Not a word was mentioned in the chat room that trading prospects for cash wasn't allowed. Until the deal was accepted, then the junior high school talk started and the trade got vetoed.

  I truly wonder if the reason others are voting these deals down is because it isn't making their teams better? Is Jealousy a reason to Veto?

  I'm going to go through these pages and summarize the good points in favor, and the good points against. Although there aren't enough to stat the list just yet.

Regards

hoser,

Most of the points being made in this thread have been argued ad nauseum in other threads.  This thread:  http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/threads.asp?forumID=58&TopicID=389959&ReturnPage=&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=21 has a lot of crap to sift through, but you'll see the merits both for and against cash in trades.

I picked the particular page of the thread in the link to highlight my own argument for cash in trades.  I think every point you're likely to bring up will come up in that page and the following pages in there.  I think you'll find just about every point for and every point against in the midst of that thread.  Take the time to read through it...

That said, even though in theory I support the idea, in practice, and pragmatically I can't.  The overriding factor is the fact that owners have the opportunity to bail without consequence.

Which is why trades have to be evaluated "for the good of the world".

I go back to trading your three best, yet expensive, players for a training camp pitcher.    You get the cap room you desire, the other owner gets the players he needs, both of you are happy as pigs in slop.    But is that sort of deal good for the world?

  Just exactly what does "for the good of the world" mean? Is it a Monty Python Theme?

  Or is because Jealous managers get all choked because some other manager just snagged himself a prospect for cash? They then threaten to quit the world? Is that what good for the world means? Prevent managers from quiting?

  Why is it MikeT that you are allowed to post your thoughts on every forum, and others aren't allowed an opinion as well? I clearly asked for opinions on this topic, but why shouldn't I be allowed an opinion? It's Mike's way or the highhway!