Superconferences Topic

Posted by oldresorter on 8/1/2011 8:09:00 PM (view original):
I was considered a top 20 type coach really early in the game, I started season 7 in most the older worlds, probably by about season 12 or 14 I was pretty well known & included in discussions as a top coach, mostly as a d3 coach and disregarded by the top d1 coaches, who said winning in d3 doesn't count - LOL.  I used to say back then, the secret to this game is to embrace the change.  Nothing has changed since then, it still is the secret.  IMO, I adapt better than most, for any given change, 5 or 10 coaches may figure it out b4 me, but usually, I am quick to learn, a few changes I have really figured out quick, some less so.

My point for the history lesson, this is not about slow to change.  All the top coaches know what needs to be done to win right now, we are all doing the same thing if you look.  The problem is, there are not enough recruits to go around in d1, so it is not fun for those who can't get them.  It is actually much more fun for those who can, sort of a blast.

One thing that was not so obvious about the change, that I am pretty sure is true, is the game actually has gotten more even, in the range of the first thru oh - maybe 30th best teams, or lets say best coaches.  Due to the lack of recruits, some seasons the top coaches get shut out, it just happens unless your market has no competition, which seldom happens, since most the top teams play in the same 3 or 4  conferences.  Anyhow, this shutting out factor makes d1 runs that girt, clone, lostmyth, maybe myself had gotten, much more difficult to accomplish.  In that sense, the change probably has been lots of fun for many of the coaches I see in support of it.  I think LM or clone or even you gill would say, if you give me a top five rated team, I will give you a pretty high chance of winning it all.  Under the system lacking recruiting depth, the odds of having a top 5 rated team year in and year out has gone down. 

But, the odds for the teams or coaches that are the 30th thru the 150th best in a world participating in the race to get enough of those players, it pretty much has dwindled to zero.  That is why d1 numbers have dropped.  By the way, if d1 numbers hadn't dropped, it would be absolutely miserable for those coaches, at least with few human competitors there are some OK recruits floating around, just not good enough to compete with the teams getting top recruits.

I understand why some of you good coaches like it, it is great for you guys ... to tell you the truth, it is pretty good for me ... look up my username, my teams are not exactly tanking it, but the ? is, was it good for the game, really gil - seriously - honestly - I respect you - if you think it is good for the game and you think mass hysteria caused the problem (which requires hundreds of independent decisions to be made by many guys who don't even read the boards) and not seble's ill conceived notion (a single decision that coincides nearly to the moment the problem started & b4 there was widespread support that the change was bad) - then I will not argue the point with you - here is my test when I work with kids or even some of my peers - if going to heaven or hell was riding on the accuracy of your call - would you say the change is at fault or mass hysteria?  How is that for pressure!

A top 20 coach?  So humble.  OR, in my opinion there are only a couple of names on the Mount Rushmore of HD.  Pretty obvious that you'd be one.  In my HD career, I've had some decent success under this ID and my dcy ID, but I don't consider myself anywhere near that group on Rushmore.  You, Lostmyth, BillyG, and Rails (with no disrespect intended to ANYONE else) have always been Mount Rushmore to me and you guys were always the ones that I was striving to equal.  It'll never happen because I've slowly been burning out on the game, but to say that you were a "Top 20 coach" is a very, very big understatement, don't you think?!  :^)

By the way, I can say this (and no one else playing HD can, at least at this point).  In Tark, under my dcy ID at D2 Northeastern State, I'm gonna beat OR in the race to 1500 wins in a single world and be the first one to crack that barrier (was the first to 1000 in any world also.  Turbo worlds really help speed up the numbers.  I'll get there early next season).  Now all but 24 of those wins came at the D2 level, while OR has been piling them up at UConn and other big time schools so his numbers are really far more impressive than mine, but I can say that I'm gonna get there before anyone else!  That's my claim to HD fame and that's about all I've got, but I've got it!!!  OR, it's been fun actually trying to hold you off and get there first and I think that had I jumped to D1 with that ID, you probably would have ran me down, but.......I also started a season later than everyone else, so I was already at a small disadvantage.  Anyway, enough of the look at me, look at me thing.  Just had to respond when I saw OR mention himself as a "top 20 coach".  Made me chuckle at how humble the man is.  Top 20....yeah right.  More like top 1, regardless of where everyone else was when you started. 
8/1/2011 8:34 PM
you are missing my point OR. in your whole post really (no offense), but the last sentence captures it best - "if going to heaven or hell was riding on the accuracy of your call - would you say the change is at fault or mass hysteria?". as i said, maybe not clearly enough, its not an OR - its an AND. its not always black and white, there is not always 1 cause, and i think this is definitely one of those situation. i have complained as much as most (maybe as much as any, but there are definitely some who are hard to top) about new recruit generation. your analysis of the problem with recruit generation jives completely with mine. if you check my first (of 2) posts in this thread, i say exactly some of what you just said. but that's not the point.

the point is the problems with recruit generation are not the only thing that caused the massive waves of discontent that decimated the d1 non-big 6 population. its also what kmason was trying to describe. NOT mass hysteria - but instead, what i described above - the simple reality that people go overboard in their hatred of problems, before putting in the time and effort to understand and adapt to the change. im not just saying other people - im very guilty of it myself. i would daresay you have been at times, too. if you count the number of "the sky is falling" posts with the number of times the sky has actually fallen (which, admittedly, is non zero), i think what i am getting at would be abundantly clear.
8/1/2011 8:35 PM
thx emy - I was talking about back in the plumpy days, fun times, I was considered pretty irrevelant in those circles, among his many accomplishment, first to duke (I think), won d3 in tark the first season, he pretty much won / did everything first, I think he was a very funny poster too, although I sort of was just getting into it when he was winding down.

gill - sorry I missed so much.   one thing about the FSS departure of vet coaches, THEY WERE 100% RIGHT - nothing took fun from the game they way FSS did, prior to that, coaches could mold teams exactly how they wanted.  IMO, I had nearly a 40 point advantage on many coaches in a players 4 year career, by improving the right things in practice that fit my team and my gameplan - practice was possibly the most fun part of the game.  now, I don't hardly look once I set the numbers, unless I get a email telling me of a max out.

Coin flip did not cause the anger making coaches quit, not being able to custom improve players was the main reason.  coin flip was a side effect of too rapid of improvement, making most end of frosh players maxed out.  In many ways, coin flip was a reverse image of recruit generation, in coin flip, everyone had great players.  This actually allowed some of the d1 dynasties to be born - the notion if you give lost or clone or rails or you a top 5 team, you have a pretty good shot at winning it all.  I think one of our first back and forths was over your contention that you felt 50% certain you would win a NT a seasons start.

Anyhow, enough said, I think right now it is probably best for the game for this to go away, the 'fix' might be worse than the problem, although to seble's credit, he has proven to be pretty great a fixin stuff, once he gets around to it.
8/1/2011 8:53 PM
emy - just checked, I will not catch you to 1500, maybe 2000, if we last that long!  I must admit, now that oldave is not around to count that stuff, I have not been keeping track, he amazingly is still 7th all time in d1 wins in tark, he left the game 11 season ago, pretty amazing, I think our entire conf misses him still, did you used to read his passionate rants?
8/1/2011 9:18 PM
I miss oldave :'(
8/1/2011 11:02 PM
Posted by jslotman on 7/20/2011 7:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by cornfused on 7/19/2011 5:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jslotman on 7/19/2011 9:25:00 AM (view original):
Reading this thread makes me think that Allen is somehow the land of parity.  Despite the ACC winning something like six of the last seven NT's, the runners-up in many of those tournaments were from a variety of conferences.  And one only has to go back about nine seasons to see Southern as the big winner. 
Allen's got the best conference in HD, I think - and probably the worst Big Six conference in HD, too... but the parity 2-5 and particularly 2-4 (sorry, SEC) is just great.
Well, to be fair, there was also a time not so long ago where the Big Sky was probably the best conference in Allen.  I suppose that proves the point folks are trying to make in so far as recruit generation goes. 
The Big Sky was as good as a couple of other major conferences but that's it. The ACC is just ridiculous now but its been the top conference for a very long time.
8/2/2011 3:32 AM
The ACC in Allen became what the ACC is now only when girt, then others like fmschwab and viperhoops, joined the conference.  There seems to be a pretty direct correlation between ACC Allen dominance, recruit generation, and some really good coaches joining the league. 
8/2/2011 9:28 AM
This looks to be pretty much the definition of a super conference, with all 12 teams winning their first postseason game (10 in the NT, two in the PIT):

North Standings
  School Coach Conf.
W-L
Overall
W-L
Home
W-L
Road
W-L
Top 25
W-L
Last 10 STRK RPI SOS
  #1 UNC girt25 14-2 28-2 9-0 15-2 12-1 9-1 W5 1 9
  #10 Duke acn24 11-5 24-6 8-3 13-2 8-5 7-3 W1 7 6
  #24 Miami (FL) kyle_lee7 9-7 20-9 10-3 8-5 4-9 5-5 W1 17 5
  Georgia Tech djbrewer0808 9-7 19-9 7-2 11-6 3-7 6-4 W1 14 8
  Virginia wang35 6-10 18-11 4-5 12-5 3-9 5-5 W1 15 2
  Virginia Tech aporter 1-15 12-17 7-7 4-9 1-12 3-7 W1 45 4
  
South Standings
  School Coach Conf.
W-L
Overall
W-L
Home
W-L
Road
W-L
Top 25
W-L
Last 10 STRK RPI SOS
 
#13 N. Carolina St. fmschwab 11-5 23-6 7-1 14-4 8-4 8-2 W1 5 12
  #11 Clemson kelby_03 10-6 22-7 10-2 10-4 7-6 7-3 W1 8 7
  #19 Boston College brikeisco 9-7 20-8 6-2 13-5 5-6 5-5 W1 18 15
  Maryland viperhoops 8-8 17-11 10-2 6-8 6-6 4-6 W1 16 1
  Wake Forest farmlife 5-11 15-13 5-7 9-5 3-11 3-7 W1 37 14
  Florida St. mtallen2020 3-13 11-18 9-6 1-11 3-12 3-7 W1 54 3
8/2/2011 10:49 AM
...was about to post that.
8/2/2011 11:11 AM
Posted by jslotman on 8/2/2011 9:28:00 AM (view original):
The ACC in Allen became what the ACC is now only when girt, then others like fmschwab and viperhoops, joined the conference.  There seems to be a pretty direct correlation between ACC Allen dominance, recruit generation, and some really good coaches joining the league. 
I left my DII powerhouse 30 seasons ago to jump straight to the ACC.  I wanted the challenge of a rebuild (0-27 C prestige Clemson) in the toughest conference in the world. I know it was the strongest conference because my brother is in the conference and I followed it pretty closely. Many great coaches have come and gone and It wasn't always so dominant but the ACC in Allen has been the top dog as long as I remember.
8/2/2011 7:59 PM
ACC in Allen has always been a great conference, but I'd suggest they weren't always THE best conference.  It's really a personal preference though.  When girt and fmschwab were running around in the Big 10 with brikeisco, I'd say the Big 10 was probably the better conference.  
8/2/2011 8:02 PM
Yeah hopefully the Big East can step it up so that the poor ol SEC doesn't have to be ***** slapped around by the ACC every year during recruiting.  Its tough when they pull in $50k in recruiting money to fight back.
8/2/2011 10:55 PM
I'd have to imagine Big East in Allen has to be close to the worst power conference in all of HD across all worlds. 
8/3/2011 9:20 AM
VIL-la-NO-va! [clap. clap. clapclapclap.] VIL-la-NO-va! [clap. clap. clapclapclap.]
8/3/2011 11:01 AM

15 of 16 Sweet 16 spots taken by power schools and eight from the ACC.  That's parity! 

8/3/2011 3:51 PM
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