seble never answered the question re: why so many EEs get drafted in the 2nd round, and why so many top players who would've gotten drafted in the lottery stay. In RL, some players leave early even though they're not projected high or undraftable, but they leave for reasons OUTSIDE the scope of HD. And some stay when they could be drafted high, but those are very, very rare. And he also never explained why team success is so much more important than in RL. In HD, EEs should be ENTIRELY based on projected draft position. If seble will just admit these issues and get it done as the next project, then complaints will drop drastically.

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Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 11/10/2009
Their projected draft position is determined by ratings and postseason success. Their decision to leave is then based on that projected draft position and some other factors, such as their current class, along with some randomness. I absolutely cannot explain it any more directly than that.

seble, why is postseason success such a huge factor? It's practically a non-factor in real life. If, as you've said, you're trying to make the process resemble real life, making this such a large factor doesn't make any sense.

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 11/11/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 11/10/2009
Their projected draft position is determined by ratings and postseason success. Their decision to leave is then based on that projected draft position and some other factors, such as their current class, along with some randomness. I absolutely cannot explain it any more directly than that.

seble, why is postseason success such a huge factor? It's practically a non-factor in real life. If, as you've said, you're trying to make the process resemble real life, making this such a large factor doesn't make any sense.

post season sure helped dwade - one of my firends sons played for marquette, we met wade b4 a game his last season there, he talked to us for a pretty long time - he was not that famous until the post season, j noah comes to mind as another who the post season helped, plus I think it makes lots of sense for this game as it has broken up several dynasties in d1 (some of mine even), gives the game a second set of checks and balances, in case a region's auction recruiting process breaks down for any of a variety of reasons, not perfect as it stands, but seems like a reasonable concept

Ah, but OR, you are confusing two things here.

In real life, from time-to-time there are players that get helped by their personal performance in the postseason. They go out and light it up on the national stage and really help their draft stock.

But that's not what WIS does. It's based purely on team success. I've had guys who played terribly in the postseason (shooting under 30% etc.) leave early because my team made a deep run. That's completely counter to how it works in real life.

And if you compare mock drafts that are out before the NT and after (and I have done this the last two years) they look nearly identical. There are generally a couple players who really help or hurt themselves w. individual performances, but other than that, barely a ripple.

In HD it's designed purely to artificially manufacture parity. You may like that, I do not.

Right, nobody said it doesn't ever happen but it happens a lot less IRL then it does in WIS.

I get it, I have lost far more illogical guys than most to break up my teams, once I lost 3 junior pf's who only were on my team because of another EE fiasco 3 seasons earlier, they were probably not even in the top 500 players in d1, yet they declare, all 3 of them, almost like if HD takes 3 PF's from UConn, HD can shut the team down - BUT - it is what it is, not even in my top 20 issues, if someone fixed it the right way, I'd appreciate it - BUT - what really are the odds of that?

as all you guys know, the reason they can't base it on stats, is some of us hide 900 level guys with no distro, I even have started to see a trend where those guys seem more likely to leave early than less, which is probably a good thing, for some reason, I could not see jim beohim not playing carmelo anthony, so he returns his soph season???

OR I agree it can't be on stats. But EE's should be 80% Ratings at the very least. I understand that from time to time guys leave early because they were able to showcase themselves on the big stage and so be it if that happens from time to time in HD. But as dalt already mentioned it has nothing to do with the player himself only his team performing well.

Looking closer at the slotting logic, I misspoke before. The majority of weight is given to ratings, but also factored in are All-American/Player of the Year selection(s), team wins, and team prestige. So postseason success isn't explicitly a factor.

Quote: Originally Posted By kelby_03 on 11/10/2009then why do so many leave early and end up being drafted at the end of the 2nd round? That isn't very realistic

Kelby nailed the problem. Its not that players are leaving early because of ratings or postseason play - its that great players that are a lock to be a lottery pick in their senoir seasons leave early to be a late 2nd rounder. Thats the most frustrating part.

If the player is a freshman or sophomore, he won't even consider leaving unless he's slotted in the top 30. If he's a sophomore. If he's a junior then he won't consider leaving unless he's projected to be drafted somewhere.

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 11/11/2009If the player is a freshman or sophomore, he won't even consider leaving unless he's slotted in the top 30. If he's a sophomore. If he's a junior then he won't consider leaving unless he's projected to be drafted somewhere.

Right but in reality shouldn't it be top 30 for almost anyone that is leaving early? That is where the guaranteed money is in the NBA, unless our fake NBA has some different pay scale.

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 11/11/2009Looking closer at the slotting logic, I misspoke before. The majority of weight is given to ratings, but also factored in are All-American/Player of the Year selection(s), team wins, and team prestige. So postseason success isn't explicitly a factor.

First of all, I just want to say that I very much appreciate the public dialogue on this issue, so thank you. And while it doesn't effect everyone, it's a piece that is almost universally reviled by DI coaches, so that in itself makes it significant (it's pretty monumental when such a high % of us actually agree on something, lol).

If you want to spin it as postseason success isn't "explicitly" a factor, that's your right. But we all see very clearly every season that the players that leave come from teams that make the postseason, and generally go deep. It's exceedingly rare for a player to leave early from a team that doesn't make the postseason.

If that's because it weights wins and team prestige, I guess that could be the explanation. But there's such an enormous jump in EE's from teams making deep runs, it would be nearly impossible to think that could simply result from a couple extra wins.

seble, why is team/postseason success such a huge factor? It's practically a non-factor in real life. If, as you've said, you're trying to make the process resemble real life, making this such a large factor doesn't make any sense.

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 11/11/2009Looking closer at the slotting logic, I misspoke before. The majority of weight is given to ratings, but also factored in are All-American/Player of the Year selection(s), team wins, and team prestige. So postseason success isn't explicitly a factor.

I like this - It helps reduce the "rich get richer" factor by somewhat limiting A+ prestige teams from having dominant senior classes.