Changing coach hiring Topic

iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By firemanrob on 5/19/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 5/17/2010
Cox has handle some of the best pitching staff in baseball over the last 20 years while Baker seems to ruin a young arm every other weekend.


Good thing they got Aroldis Chapman then, huh?

Blame his agent.
5/20/2010 8:31 AM
sergei91
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mike said 'cox' and staff' and 'handle'

makes me giggle a little
5/20/2010 8:44 AM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 5/20/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 5/17/2010

If I had my way, all coaches would be sent into a pool after the next season. They would take the best offer, largely based on money with a modifier for position/level, including number of years(up to 3). And, the following season, the same thing would happen with any coach not under contract. No random re-hires. No outrageous demands. Let the world place them.

The biggest flaws I've seen with coach hiring are the inability to retain coaches and the fact that the best coaches are in the bigs when the most important coaches would be in the minors.




Solved right here.
No, I solved this weeks ago. You merely re-typed my idea.
5/20/2010 11:19 AM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 5/20/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 5/18/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By deathinahole on 5/17/2010

Sure. But, in my head, this game is trying to get players "better", and the keys seem to be hitting, pitching and fielding.

You have pitching coaches. You have hitting coaches. Thus, have fielding coaches.

You want to make it easier, get rid of bullpen coaches and the 1st and 3rd base coaches.

Or make the role of base coach a little more noticable, so that owners can see the effects of good vs. bad coaches.

"J. Numnuts drives one to the gap in -center but is thrown out easily at second base after being waved on by the first base coach".

or

"T. Dingleberry wisely held at third by the third base coach".

I hate that I have to ask this... but tec: You are aware that 1B/3B coaches don't have any impact on in-game play, right? No more than your bullpen coach affects your RPs.

Please tell me you were just looking for a new tweak to the engine... please?

Yep, I'm aware that they currently don't have an impact on in-game play. My suggestion was indeed a tweak to the engine, because in real-life the 3B coach (moreso than the 1B) coach does have an occasional impact. Also, it would highlight the difference between good base coaches and bad base coaches if one you visibly see the occasional impact in the PBP.
5/20/2010 11:36 AM
goosegoslin
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First base coach can have a huge impact on SBs, see Davy Lopes . . . He's worked wonders with his teams.
5/20/2010 1:12 PM
dyoungquist
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Of the new options, this one seems to have gotten the most support on this thread:

Remove individual coaches and instead break apart the coaching budget item by level. Each level budget would then drive all coaching effects. There would be a minimum and maxium budget for each level with a total minimum (across all levels) of $7M and a total max of $30M. The effect of the budget would also be relative to the other 31 franchises in the world. This would eliminate the ability to transfer money to/from coaching.

We all know there are a ton of owners in HBD who for the most part ignore their minor league teams. Under this option I can see most of them putting the minimum amounts on their minor league teams while putting the maximum on the MLB team. With a few other owners in the world wanting to max out coaches at the MLB level, that could easily lead to 15-20 teams (or more) having MLB coaching maxed out.

The effect of the budget would also be relative to the other 31 franchises in the world. Now with 15-20 (or more) teams all maxed out, doesn't that pretty much destroy the "relative" part?

I like the idea of breaking it into 3 catgories, pitching, hitting and fielding with 1 budget for each that covers all levels and make it relative to the other teams. Something like $1-$10M range for each one. (I think WIS listed bench coaches as the 4th one in this option but what do bench coahes do that the other 3 don't already cover???)

This would give you the ability to concentrate on a particular area that your players and prospects (as a whole) may be weak in. If I have good hitters but my pitchers stink, I can run hitting down a bit and raise pitching so that my young pitchers develope better/faster (and my old ones don't decline as fast.)

This could potentially be subject to the "relative" problem I listed above, but I suspect only a few owners would max out more than 1 category. This is because most owners spend $10M-$15M on coaches right now. When they start runing 2 or 3 of these categories high they get into the $20M-30M range which would take $10M-$15M away from other areas they are used to spending it on.

This gets rid of the multiple days it takes to hire coaches. This would also allow them to shorten the season length 1 or 2 days by overlapping the free agent signing period and spring training games. There are a few real life free agents who sign during spring training....
6/9/2010 4:11 PM
goosegoslin
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Does anyone realize no major league team spends $30 million on coaching (aside from the field manager) in a decade, let alone a season?

As late as 2007 (first year that pops up on google), half of the MAJOR LEAGUE MANAGERS made $600K or less.

Ditto for training and medical. $20 million a year? Are they insane?

Why they've made coaching, medical and training such a budget sink is anyone's guess, but it's an insanely over-emphasized part of this game. But because of the 'relativity' you have to spend just to keep up in most worlds.

Scale back the whole thing, have all coaches start at $40K demands, you sign 7 pitching coaches (one for ML bullpen), 8 hitting (to cover 1B/3B at ML level), 1 fielding, and you assign them wherever the hell you want. Let the market decide how much everyone is worth, don't artificially prop it up.

These artificial $2 million demands and guys taking $90K to coach Hi-A while turning down $600K to coach Lo-A are beyond unrealistic, and incredibly stupid. It's just a horrible setup right now, but thankfully the rest of the game is good.
6/9/2010 5:38 PM
dyoungquist
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I agree that $20M for medical/training and $30M for fielding (in my example above) are way out of line compared to real life MLB.

What happens if they cut everything in half, $10M for medical/training and $15M for fielding ($1M-$5M in my example)? If they did that, most owners would just max out every category. Might as well not even have those categories in the game if most are going to run with the same budget in them.

No easy answer. If there were more categories to spread the budget around in then they would average a lower amounts in each one but I'm not sure what else one could add.

6/9/2010 6:39 PM
goosegoslin
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They could use it to pay for the potential free agents that stop signing ridiculous hometown discount contracts once they fix that insanity too . . .
6/9/2010 9:49 PM
goosegoslin
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If the typical team had a $2-5 million for coaching, but with hiring like I mentioned above (everyone starts out asking for the minimum, market decides contracts and you assign coaches to whatever level you see fit), there would still be plenty of incentive to get good coaches, you'd still have the skill of finding good coaches, you just wouldn't have to spend an insane amount of money on it. And you wouldn't lose out on a HiA pitching coach because someone decides he's good enough for AA and offers him 10% of what you do.

If the average team spent $3.5 million on coaches, they'd still have an average coach salary (across all levels) of a little over $200K, there'd still be bidding, etc.. I'd just be on a much smaller and realistic scale.

Same for training and medical. Give every team a 2-5 million swing, and make the differences smaller, like they are in real life.

Teams can use the extra money to make player salaries a little more realistic. Heck, even the scouting budgets are insane. Find me a team that spends $20 million on scouting, that's comical. They pay their scouts like $50K each and a company car, and even the scouting directors don't make more than a couple of hundred K, and even that might be high.

I just have no idea where they pulled these numbers from when they set the game up.
6/9/2010 9:55 PM
goosegoslin
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Actually, they have Jim Bowden on the payroll now, they should ask him what realistic numbers are
6/9/2010 9:58 PM
dyoungquist
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Quote: Originally Posted By patrickm885 on 6/12/2010

We have tallied the survey results and found that the resounding majority of you wanted to see the loyalty rating significantly increased.

We are planning an update, to be released sometime in Mid July, with this change. In addition to that change we will also be introducing the ability to promote your lower level coaches during the rehiring phase and also correcting the logic involved when a Fielding instructor is offered a Bench Coach position.

Those three changes should improve the coach hiring process significantly.



Posted in another thread today...... Not what I voted for but it should help a little.
6/12/2010 11:09 AM
joshkvt
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Quote: Originally posted by dyoungquist on 6/09/2010I agree that $20M for medical/training and $30M for fielding (in my example above) are way out of line compared to real life MLB.
It wouldn't surprise me if MLB teams spent $30M+ on medical/training each year. Health insurance for hundreds of employees would be well over $1M. Add in team doctors, trainers, physical therapists and their facilities, exercise rooms and equipment, medical diagnostic machines at the ballpark, off-season conditioning programs, travel for all the training/medical personnel, etc.
6/12/2010 12:34 PM
deaconsoule
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i would prefer that they just allow you to offer the BC a multi year contract. also allow you to offer the coach a promotion before he heads to FA.
generally the only times a coach leaves a team is being fired or not promoted.

making it a overall budget takes a lot of strategy away.
it changes the developmental stages of the prospects.
to me that kind of tweak would have way too many bugs in it.
6/12/2010 7:07 PM
dyoungquist
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See Patrick's post in the "Hey PatrickM855" thread or read the copy of it I posted above. ADMIN has already decided what they are going to do to improve coach hiring.

Other thread linked below:

color=#0000ccHey patrickm885
6/12/2010 11:33 PM
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