blatant tank job Topic

MikeT23
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It's less that and more "If a tree falls in a forest....."

There has to be a reason for doing something.  If his reason is to simply entertain himself, there's something to that.   But, if that's the case, one might as well buy Baseball Mogul(if it's still around) because you're only playing against the sim.  And it's infinitely cheaper.    But, if you're doing it to compete against other people, you almost have to care what they think at least to a tiny extent.   You can't go "BOO-YEAH!!!!  IN YOUR FACE!!!!" when their response is "Yeah, so what?  You won a WS but your overall winning percentage is .275.    A goddam monkey, a blind, dumb one with one nut, can do better than that."
6/27/2012 11:32 AM
bigal888
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well that's disappointing if a blind, dumb, one nut monkey could win a world series with an overall winning percentage of .275....because I have yet to win a WS and I feel like I am slightly better than a blind, dumb, one nut monkey.

But to your point.  I think it's a matter of paying $25 to beat a bunch of strangers that you know are real life humans as opposed to paying $5 to beat a computer.  Computers have trends and eventually you can figure out how to beat them every time.  At least with tard worlds you'll never get the same tarded up experience.
6/27/2012 12:36 PM
mezirah
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Thanks for the advice moe. I want more control over my future and I think holding on to those guys for another 1 or 2 seasons will allow me to be much more competitive down the road and make real runs on a title. I don't stop promoting them to tank my record, I want to hold on to them for more years of control for when I actually have a decent roster.  I can understand ML coaches being a bit better but I rather not let that make me start service time on guys that will make me a .500 club just for the sake of realism.

I'm just saying this is how i'm playing my first season and is my goal for this team, this world. I'm sure down the road I'll be more realistic for the enjoyment of the game, because I do love baseball and favor the joy of owning my own club. Right now with my current goals I just don't want to promote guys so other owners can feel good about MY club. I know you said 'its been done' but not by me. Some people gotta see things for themselves.
6/27/2012 12:39 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by bigal888 on 6/27/2012 12:36:00 PM (view original):
well that's disappointing if a blind, dumb, one nut monkey could win a world series with an overall winning percentage of .275....because I have yet to win a WS and I feel like I am slightly better than a blind, dumb, one nut monkey.

But to your point.  I think it's a matter of paying $25 to beat a bunch of strangers that you know are real life humans as opposed to paying $5 to beat a computer.  Computers have trends and eventually you can figure out how to beat them every time.  At least with tard worlds you'll never get the same tarded up experience.
Well, you have to have that run .250 seasons and then win a WS to get to .275 overall.    As I said, the way to build a powerhouse has been proven.    There are always "sure things" at the top of the draft and in the IFA market. 

As for paying $25 for the different experience, it's not different.   You're playing for the #1 pick.   Unless you're really having to battle to be the worst, being the worst is easy and there is a template. 
6/27/2012 12:43 PM
bigal888
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holding them in the minors is counterproductive though.  You aren't gaining more control over them further into the future.  After 5 years they hit the Rule 5 draft and you have to put them on your 40 man roster anyway and their options start ticking away.  Why not in that 5th year put them on your ML team after 20 games and get the same long term control?
6/27/2012 12:44 PM
MikeT23
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mez, what usually happens with tankers is that they realize what they're doing/have done doesn't require much skill, knowledge or intelligence.    The top picks and high dollar IFA are not "surprises".    It's a game with numbers.   Collect a bunch of 90s by using a bunch of 40s for a few seasons doesn't require much more than $21 to **** away every 3 months for a year or so. 

6/27/2012 12:48 PM
bigal888
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The game (both real life and HBD) is designed so that the best players out of high school are allowed 4.25 years of development in the minors, .75 years of development at the ML level without counting as ML time and then another 5 years of minimum cost ML playing.  After that you can then sign them to a max 5-year contract and have them until they are 32.  That's the most control you can have over any one player.

I know I probably got the totals screwed up in there somehow, but you can't game the system to keep the player longer than that.
6/27/2012 12:51 PM
MikeT23
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11 seasons.

20 games-1 season
3 minimum-3 seasons
2 arb-2 seasons
LT deal-5 seasons

Once a position player is 22, you're looking at decline at the end of those 11 seasons.   PItchers are different.   They hold the "important" ratings longer but do lose stamina/durability.
6/27/2012 12:59 PM
bigal888
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There's the exact numbers. But the point is, you aren't "finding a new way" to keep players longer than that. The numbers MikeT posted are the MAX you can keep one guy around. If you're doing something where a guy is on your 40 and better than anyone in your majors, but playing in AAA - that's simply tanking to get a better draft position.
6/27/2012 1:07 PM
MikeT23
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I think you're misunderstanding what he means.   He means those 2-3 players aren't going to help him win a WS now.   He can have them cheaper when he feels he can compete.  And, since those particular players will be cheaper, he'll have more money to spend of FA when he's "ready".    And that's correct.  
6/27/2012 1:13 PM
mezirah
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Okay so putting a guy on my 40-man starts ticking away his ML seasons? Can't I delay the start of those 11 seasons Mike laid out?

I'm just asking because I'm in a unique position where I actually took over a team that was the product of tanking by former owners. I'm kind of making out on their misdeeds and I have good prospects. But I'd like to start my competitive play a couple of more seasons down the road.
6/27/2012 1:21 PM
bigal888
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"I want to hold on to them for more years of control for when I actually have a decent roster."

That's it right there.  He wants to do the "flood effect" of having all of his good players come up at one time as opposed to gradually letting them in.
6/27/2012 1:24 PM
bigal888
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I had posted a response, but realized I didn't know what I was talking about.  MikeT knows these details better than I do.
6/27/2012 1:33 PM
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tecwrg
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Posted by mezirah on 6/27/2012 1:21:00 PM (view original):
Okay so putting a guy on my 40-man starts ticking away his ML seasons? Can't I delay the start of those 11 seasons Mike laid out?

I'm just asking because I'm in a unique position where I actually took over a team that was the product of tanking by former owners. I'm kind of making out on their misdeeds and I have good prospects. But I'd like to start my competitive play a couple of more seasons down the road.
Putting a guy on your 40 starts his option clock, not his arb clock.  The arb clock is triggered by putting him on the ML roster.

As long as you plan to promote the guy to the majors within three seasons of putting him on the 40, and never plan to demote him after he's on the ML roster, the option clock is less of a concern.  It's usually only a concern for the AAAA type players who tend to bounce back and forth between the minors and majors.
6/27/2012 1:38 PM
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