The Mad Scientist Top 25 Ranking Debate Topic

a_in_the_b
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Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/28/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/28/2009
You said numerous times that dalt, lm2 and myself (among others) did not understand what you were saying. That is disrespectful and insulting our intelligence.
Yet you made a post last page that still suggests you don't get entirely how I want to process my rankings. You get the OTR SOS process...nothing leads me to believe that you understand the ranking premises/processes after that, though I've attempted to tell you time and again.

Also, if you think you've earned or deserve my respect, you're incredibly delusional and full of yourself.

If we think that using ratings alone is flawed for SOS< and SOS is a strong component of the system, then why does the rest of the system matter until the major flaw(In our view) is fixed?
12/28/2009 10:57 AM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/28/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/28/2009
It doesn't matter how much or how little ratings play in your system. Ratings do not have a place in tournament seeding so even .1% ratings it too much.
Unless you've been hired as seble's towel boy, you don't know this for certain...you don't program HD.



I don't have to be hired to know whether how talented your team is or isn't shouldn't be a part of whether your team makes the tourney or not, only your resume should. That is just common sense.

If you think that somehow how talented your team is ratings wise somehow should matter then there is nothing to debate. That just wouldn't be logical thinking on your part.
12/28/2009 10:57 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/28/2009Lol, Yes I am the leader of the WIS HD Mafia. How'd ya figure that one out? This is comical
I said gang-up, not gang...there's a difference.
12/28/2009 10:57 AM
oldresorter
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colonels - how would the system handle this?

i am having trouble posting team data on here, but in world 1, in the acc UNC is 6-20 rpi 188 / #3 SOS, in the big east rutgers is 24-2 rpi/rank both #2, #57 SOS yet their team totals when adjusted for one walkon, are near identical, I spent 30 seconds to find this one example, since I am in the acc, I found highly rated poor performing unc immediately, then looked at the ranked teams, my team is one, so rutgers was 2, seriously, the first 2 teams i looked at were rutgers and unc (unc was 8 better when adjusted for the walkon)
12/28/2009 10:58 AM
a_in_the_b
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/28/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/28/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/28/2009

I gave the date and time of the quote, so anyone can look it up if they like for context.

Hilarious....any BOOB if they saw what you posted would ask "If you think otherwise than what?"...but you're telling me I should "look it up"...that's comedy gold.



And I am a bad debater? At least I stay on topic.
I find it amazing that he apparently thinks its somehow bad form of me to post exactly where the original post is so people can read it themselves, and unfair to him.
12/28/2009 10:58 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/28/2009
A neighborhood has ten people in it. Their aggregate income is $1,000,000. One of them makes $910,000. The other nine make ten thousand apiece. Does an average of $100,000 adequately describe the neighborhood?

I thoroughly enjoy your apples to oranges comparison. A. I've already said that I want to adjust the overalls to account for who plays and who doesn't and B. In the context of your statement, in HD, you'll never see a team with a 910 player and nine 10s...and the extreme examples ridiculously continue.
12/28/2009 11:00 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/28/2009SO tropicana, who popped in and made an attack and popped out again, was a saint?
He didn't so much "make an attack" as he did correct you...saint...compared to us....yes...I forgot to include isack fwiw.
12/28/2009 11:01 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/28/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/28/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/28/2009

I gave the date and time of the quote, so anyone can look it up if they like for context.

Hilarious....any BOOB if they saw what you posted would ask "If you think otherwise than what?"...but you're telling me I should "look it up"...that's comedy gold.
Its rather easy to look up, and if someone looks it up, then they can see the original in black and white, why do you have a problem with that?
I'm not the guy that originally took the comment out of context to make my point, then when someone asks for the context of the statement I trotted out and I tell him/her to "go look it up"...you are. The onus is on you here...you made the claim that I attacked y'all but you can't tell me what the OTHERWISE is/was...please man...please. Its your argument/example and you don't even have the wear-with-all to stand behind it. You need debate 101.
12/28/2009 11:04 AM
a_in_the_b
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Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/28/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/28/2009

A neighborhood has ten people in it. Their aggregate income is $1,000,000. One of them makes $910,000. The other nine make ten thousand apiece. Does an average of $100,000 adequately describe the neighborhood?

I thoroughly enjoy your apples to oranges comparison. A. I've already said that I want to adjust the overalls to account for who plays and who doesn't and B. In the context of your statement, in HD, you'll never see a team with a 910 player and nine 10s...and the extreme examples ridiculously continue


Hell with it. Someone can't give you anything that requires even a MODICUM of interpretation or analytical skills to understand> You aren't willing to extend even a MODICUM of effort to see how this applies to you, so I hardly see why I or anyone else should apply a modicum of effort to try to explain. Its obvious that the implication is that the aggregate number is an inadequate measure to tell the story. Who plays, who doesn't, where they play, what their numbers are. ...

12/28/2009 11:04 AM
isack24
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/28/2009



I don't have to be hired to know whether how talented your team is or isn't shouldn't be a part of whether your team makes the tourney or not, only your resume should. That is just common sense.

If you think that somehow how talented your team is ratings wise somehow should matter then there is nothing to debate. That just wouldn't be logical thinking on your part.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong for HD purposes, but it is wrong in RL. Teams get into the tourney all the time based on the "eye test," which includes, and perhaps prominently features, player talent.
12/28/2009 11:05 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/28/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/28/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/28/2009

I gave the date and time of the quote, so anyone can look it up if they like for context.

Hilarious....any BOOB if they saw what you posted would ask "If you think otherwise than what?"...but you're telling me I should "look it up"...that's comedy gold.



And I am a bad debater? At least I stay on topic.
Yes, perhaps the worst I've ever seen. I've addressed everything, and I mean everything...how exactly have I not stayed on topic? If I'm talking about and answering what the people are talking about and asking then........
12/28/2009 11:06 AM
a_in_the_b
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Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/28/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/28/2009

A neighborhood has ten people in it. Their aggregate income is $1,000,000. One of them makes $910,000. The other nine make ten thousand apiece. Does an average of $100,000 adequately describe the neighborhood?

I thoroughly enjoy your apples to oranges comparison. A. I've already said that I want to adjust the overalls to account for who plays and who doesn't and B. In the context of your statement, in HD, you'll never see a team with a 910 player and nine 10s...and the extreme examples ridiculously continue




I purposely made the exampel somethign other than direct player ratings so you couldn't use that dodge. .and yet you STILL try to use it. Classic evasion.



And COlonels. . . letting people directly look up a quote and decide for themselves instead of just providing my interpretation is being MORE fair to you.
12/28/2009 11:06 AM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/28/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/28/2009

A neighborhood has ten people in it. Their aggregate income is $1,000,000. One of them makes $910,000. The other nine make ten thousand apiece. Does an average of $100,000 adequately describe the neighborhood?

I thoroughly enjoy your apples to oranges comparison. A. I've already said that I want to adjust the overalls to account for who plays and who doesn't and B. In the context of your statement, in HD, you'll never see a team with a 910 player and nine 10s...and the extreme examples ridiculously continue
But if your system can't handle extreme examples then it is flawed, it has to be able to account for stuff like this.
12/28/2009 11:07 AM
dalter
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Quote: Originally Posted By isack24 on 12/28/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/28/2009




I don't have to be hired to know whether how talented your team is or isn't shouldn't be a part of whether your team makes the tourney or not, only your resume should. That is just common sense.

If you think that somehow how talented your team is ratings wise somehow should matter then there is nothing to debate. That just wouldn't be logical thinking on your part.


I'm not saying this is right or wrong for HD purposes, but it is wrong in RL. Teams get into the tourney all the time based on the "eye test," which includes, and perhaps prominently features, player talent
It's not part of the HD selection system though. I don't work for WIS, but I have asked this question directly in the past.
12/28/2009 11:08 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/28/2009If we think that using ratings alone is flawed for SOS< and SOS is a strong component of the system, then why does the rest of the system matter until the major flaw(In our view) is fixed?
Key words are bolded.

You haven't seen what the rankings have rolled out...you can't really say you'd like them or not because you haven't seen what they've done/will do yet. If you don't see OTR SOS as a viable way to judge/gauge overall team strength, then I can't help you...we disagree, big deal....but its a disagreement of OPINION and not FACT. I am not wrong because I want to roll out an OTR SOS.
12/28/2009 11:09 AM
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