Posted by robusk on 6/8/2020 11:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bds9992 on 6/8/2020 11:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 6/8/2020 11:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bds9992 on 6/8/2020 10:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by benhoidal on 6/8/2020 10:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bds9992 on 6/8/2020 8:56:00 PM (view original):
65 in the SL, 62 if I feel like the SL's eFG% is high enough, 60 minimum at all times

These three numbers for ast% will all give you the exact same boost. There is no difference between 60 and 65 or even 69. The function is not linear, it is a step-function.

Technically. But, it's a lot easier to get to 70 and beyond if I aim for 65.

It has been my experience (and probably yours) that the only teams that can work on 50 Ast% are starting lineups averaging a TS% greater than 60. I don't think one number really can be taken out of context. I think it's directly related to efficiency.

I knew this is what you were planning. Third time's a charm.

The WiS picture posting thing is really **** on a phone.

Regardless, you have successfully owned me. I will now retreat into a corner and spend the rest of my days in agony, in a corner.

the WIS pix posting thing in these forums is BS on any device is BS - all I ever see is a tiny square

Posted by copernicus on 6/8/2020 10:18:00 PM (view original):
aren't rb% more a opp differential stat tho? drives me nuts to lose the boards battle (misses of all kinds given as equal) when I have a 40/100 squad and he has a 30/80 squad but it happens more than occasionally so maybe I'm wrong

It's your 100 vs their 30, and your 40 vs their 80. The offensive shooter has a penalty to his orb% when he attempts the shot, so the offensive end (already normally dominated by at least a factor of 2 by defensive boards), you're going to naturally be dominated by the defensive end. That's kind of why guys like robusk (and me the past like 4 years) focus less on offensive boards than defensive ones. If I went crazy and got something like 60 or 70% orb, a below average team would still dominate me on the offensive end on the glass. I don't flat ignore orb, as every boost helps the die roll, but yeah. Most non OL teams are not gonna have higher than 40-45 orb, so having 85-90 drb flat dominates them on that end. Without even trying you will typically end up with 25+ orb.

Also, from all of the State Farm teams I learned one simple thing: Missing less shots > having high orb. I typically dominate the rebound battle with my state farm squads despite often having 20 or less orb and only around 75-80 drb.

A note on the ast% testing thing ... Ben's right; I have done almost no testing at the bottom end. We had a pretty extensive exchange some time back about it, though, and was taking his testing into account in my conclusion. I am pretty sure nobody has done as many teams on the high end, though. That's interesting that the step function is 10s then 20s. I figured it was 25 the whole way. Time to run some 140-145% teams!

^ If you shoot well enough, who cares if you have low oreb%?

I promise I'll get my teams in Tuesday or Wednesday evening. I tweaked for hours a couple of times & had to walk away. This weekend has been quite busy.

Posted by benhoidal on 6/9/2020 12:16:00 AM (view original):
^ If you shoot well enough, who cares if you have low oreb%?

jlg showed us the way.

Posted by ashamael on 6/9/2020 12:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by copernicus on 6/8/2020 10:18:00 PM (view original):
aren't rb% more a opp differential stat tho? drives me nuts to lose the boards battle (misses of all kinds given as equal) when I have a 40/100 squad and he has a 30/80 squad but it happens more than occasionally so maybe I'm wrong

It's your 100 vs their 30, and your 40 vs their 80. The offensive shooter has a penalty to his orb% when he attempts the shot, so the offensive end (already normally dominated by at least a factor of 2 by defensive boards), you're going to naturally be dominated by the defensive end. That's kind of why guys like robusk (and me the past like 4 years) focus less on offensive boards than defensive ones. If I went crazy and got something like 60 or 70% orb, a below average team would still dominate me on the offensive end on the glass. I don't flat ignore orb, as every boost helps the die roll, but yeah. Most non OL teams are not gonna have higher than 40-45 orb, so having 85-90 drb flat dominates them on that end. Without even trying you will typically end up with 25+ orb.

Also, from all of the State Farm teams I learned one simple thing: Missing less shots > having high orb. I typically dominate the rebound battle with my state farm squads despite often having 20 or less orb and only around 75-80 drb.

All of this. I am paraphrasing ben but at one point he said something along the lines of "why pay for offensive boards when I am making all of my shots?"

Posted by robusk on 6/9/2020 12:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 6/9/2020 12:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by copernicus on 6/8/2020 10:18:00 PM (view original):
aren't rb% more a opp differential stat tho? drives me nuts to lose the boards battle (misses of all kinds given as equal) when I have a 40/100 squad and he has a 30/80 squad but it happens more than occasionally so maybe I'm wrong

It's your 100 vs their 30, and your 40 vs their 80. The offensive shooter has a penalty to his orb% when he attempts the shot, so the offensive end (already normally dominated by at least a factor of 2 by defensive boards), you're going to naturally be dominated by the defensive end. That's kind of why guys like robusk (and me the past like 4 years) focus less on offensive boards than defensive ones. If I went crazy and got something like 60 or 70% orb, a below average team would still dominate me on the offensive end on the glass. I don't flat ignore orb, as every boost helps the die roll, but yeah. Most non OL teams are not gonna have higher than 40-45 orb, so having 85-90 drb flat dominates them on that end. Without even trying you will typically end up with 25+ orb.

Also, from all of the State Farm teams I learned one simple thing: Missing less shots > having high orb. I typically dominate the rebound battle with my state farm squads despite often having 20 or less orb and only around 75-80 drb.

All of this. I am paraphrasing ben but at one point he said something along the lines of "why pay for offensive boards when I am making all of my shots?"

LOL. I usually reply as I read instead of waiting until the end. Pretty hilarious I posted this old quote while Ben also reposted it.

Posted by robusk on 6/9/2020 12:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 6/9/2020 12:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by copernicus on 6/8/2020 10:18:00 PM (view original):
aren't rb% more a opp differential stat tho? drives me nuts to lose the boards battle (misses of all kinds given as equal) when I have a 40/100 squad and he has a 30/80 squad but it happens more than occasionally so maybe I'm wrong

It's your 100 vs their 30, and your 40 vs their 80. The offensive shooter has a penalty to his orb% when he attempts the shot, so the offensive end (already normally dominated by at least a factor of 2 by defensive boards), you're going to naturally be dominated by the defensive end. That's kind of why guys like robusk (and me the past like 4 years) focus less on offensive boards than defensive ones. If I went crazy and got something like 60 or 70% orb, a below average team would still dominate me on the offensive end on the glass. I don't flat ignore orb, as every boost helps the die roll, but yeah. Most non OL teams are not gonna have higher than 40-45 orb, so having 85-90 drb flat dominates them on that end. Without even trying you will typically end up with 25+ orb.

Also, from all of the State Farm teams I learned one simple thing: Missing less shots > having high orb. I typically dominate the rebound battle with my state farm squads despite often having 20 or less orb and only around 75-80 drb.

All of this. I am paraphrasing ben but at one point he said something along the lines of "why pay for offensive boards when I am making all of my shots?"

jlg1983, the inventor of the State Farm strategy (and 6 minutes of hell if anybody remembers THAT ridiculousness) literally had a team with the name, "Why Do I Need Rodman?"

I've never seen someone come in to this site and invent two extremely different, extremely effective strategies at two different times. One of them got nerfed, the other should have been forever ago but *waves hands around* you know...

pretty sure Ben got that quote from jlg; if he didn't, he should have! jlg said it often enough.

I often spill way too much of my thought process in the threads which makes it harder and harder to win, but I am constantly perplexed by how frequently I will see owners devote huge portions of cap to trying to get from like 55 AST% to 70 or get 40 OREB% but then not bat an eyelash at picking someone with 19 TO% or a guard with over 5 FP48.

ps glad 6 minutes of hell got nerfed into the ground. There's some basis for a bunch of great passers increasing everyone's shooting efficiency. There's no basis for guys that shot 1/1 from three for an entire season going 5/5 or 6/6 from distance every game because of a programming flaw with 3pt offense in the last 6 minutes.

Posted by ashamael on 6/9/2020 12:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 6/9/2020 12:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 6/9/2020 12:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by copernicus on 6/8/2020 10:18:00 PM (view original):
aren't rb% more a opp differential stat tho? drives me nuts to lose the boards battle (misses of all kinds given as equal) when I have a 40/100 squad and he has a 30/80 squad but it happens more than occasionally so maybe I'm wrong

It's your 100 vs their 30, and your 40 vs their 80. The offensive shooter has a penalty to his orb% when he attempts the shot, so the offensive end (already normally dominated by at least a factor of 2 by defensive boards), you're going to naturally be dominated by the defensive end. That's kind of why guys like robusk (and me the past like 4 years) focus less on offensive boards than defensive ones. If I went crazy and got something like 60 or 70% orb, a below average team would still dominate me on the offensive end on the glass. I don't flat ignore orb, as every boost helps the die roll, but yeah. Most non OL teams are not gonna have higher than 40-45 orb, so having 85-90 drb flat dominates them on that end. Without even trying you will typically end up with 25+ orb.

Also, from all of the State Farm teams I learned one simple thing: Missing less shots > having high orb. I typically dominate the rebound battle with my state farm squads despite often having 20 or less orb and only around 75-80 drb.

All of this. I am paraphrasing ben but at one point he said something along the lines of "why pay for offensive boards when I am making all of my shots?"

jlg1983, the inventor of the State Farm strategy (and 6 minutes of hell if anybody remembers THAT ridiculousness) literally had a team with the name, "Why Do I Need Rodman?"

I've never seen someone come in to this site and invent two extremely different, extremely effective strategies at two different times. One of them got nerfed, the other should have been forever ago but *waves hands around* you know...

Yeah, that dude is a legend. Most creative owner we have had I think.

Posted by ashamael on 6/9/2020 12:33:00 AM (view original):
ps glad 6 minutes of hell got nerfed into the ground. There's some basis for a bunch of great passers increasing everyone's shooting efficiency. There's no basis for guys that shot 1/1 from three for an entire season going 5/5 or 6/6 from distance every game because of a programming flaw with 3pt offense in the last 6 minutes.

It was super fun though.