Quote: Originally posted by emy1013 on 1/17/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By coach_billyg on 1/17/2010well, colonels is right about 1 thing. WIS almost certainly does NOT use true randomness. sadly, colonels also really has very little grasp of what this means.

colonels, to broaden your mind on the randomness thing, consider these quotes from the website you rely on:
"A good deal of research has gone into pseudo-random number theory, and modern algorithms for generating pseudo-random numbers are so good that the numbers look exactly like they were really random."

"These characteristics make TRNGs suitable for roughly the set of applications that PRNGs are unsuitable for, such as data encryption, games and gambling. Conversely, the poor efficiency and nondeterministic nature of TRNGs make them less suitable for simulation and modeling applications, which often require more data than it's feasible to generate with a TRNG. The following table contains a summary of which applications are best served by which type of generator: ... application: simulation and modeling, most suitable generator, PRNG"

The site you point out to explain your take on randomness explicitly states simulations, for example, this basketball simulation, are best served with pseudo random number generators. The vast majority of computer games do not use true randomness, nor should they.

It is also worth noting that no mathematician or scientist has even proven any true random number generator is any better than a pseudo random number generator in either of these 2 ways: 1) pulling number with uniform probability from the set of possibilities, which is the desired function of a RNG, or 2) producing a non-deterministic result when the point in the sequence of numbers is known Ouch, interesting find CBG!

Quote: Originally posted by jskenner on 1/17/2010billyg and Z,colonels is actually arguing the point I've made several times in the past.  Specifically, since HD does NOT include any of the following (momentum of any kind, player biorhythms, team chemistry, clutch ability, etc.), such scoring swings would NOT be as significant in HD as in RL.  In essence, HD has ONLY the ratings, settings, and RNG.  Real life has (in essence) all those PLUS the other (intangible) factors above.  So (as I've done several times in the past), I ask "HOW DOES WIS PRODUCE SUCH SCORING/OUTCOME VARIANCE WITHOUT AN 'EXTRA' RANDOM FACTOR?"  With homecourt advantage, this could explain it (IF it VARIES on a somewhat random basis).  However, this was a tourney game, so I can't think of what HD included to allow such a swing.

Quote: Originally Posted By coach_billyg on 1/18/2010

Quote: Originally posted by emy1013 on 1/17/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By coach_billyg on 1/17/2010well, colonels is right about 1 thing. WIS almost certainly does NOT use true randomness. sadly, colonels also really has very little grasp of what this means.

colonels, to broaden your mind on the randomness thing, consider these quotes from the website you rely on:
"A good deal of research has gone into pseudo-random number theory, and modern algorithms for generating pseudo-random numbers are so good that the numbers look exactly like they were really random."

"These characteristics make TRNGs suitable for roughly the set of applications that PRNGs are unsuitable for, such as data encryption, games and gambling. Conversely, the poor efficiency and nondeterministic nature of TRNGs make them less suitable for simulation and modeling applications, which often require more data than it's feasible to generate with a TRNG. The following table contains a summary of which applications are best served by which type of generator: ... application: simulation and modeling, most suitable generator, PRNG"

The site you point out to explain your take on randomness explicitly states simulations, for example, this basketball simulation, are best served with pseudo random number generators. The vast majority of computer games do not use true randomness, nor should they.

It is also worth noting that no mathematician or scientist has even proven any true random number generator is any better than a pseudo random number generator in either of these 2 ways: 1) pulling number with uniform probability from the set of possibilities, which is the desired function of a RNG, or 2) producing a non-deterministic result when the point in the sequence of numbers is known



Ouch, interesting find CBG!

it really is not a bad thing emy. if i made a sports simulation game (which i have put a lot of thought into), i would not use true randomness either. i would be shocked if WIS did. there is nothing wrong with that. i would have told you the same thing a year ago, so to me, this is nothing new or shocking... colonels is not making a profound point or anything like that, don't worry ;


Just to eliminate any confusion, I was applauding the statement YOU made, not Colonels.

Quote: Originally Posted By arssanguinus on 1/18/2010
Its from having a basic understanding of the functionality of systems rather than reading websites to quote.

Quote: Originally Posted By chewchad on 1/17/2010
I didnt think the outcome was comepletely impossible.....it just seems like WIS screws me constantly. Im yet to win a NC even though I have built a few very strong teams. The same coaches get rewarded over and over.

We had evenly matched teams. I outscored him inthe 1st half because of my -4 defense combined with his lack of PE players. One would figure he would get back in the game, but not as quickly as they did. Just interesting

Quote: Originally Posted By arssanguinus on 1/18/2010FUnny. THats exactly the point I woudl have been making. YOu were the one that asked "What is this from"?

Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 1/18/2010
I didn't 'retrieve it' from somewhere other than my head. Complex systems do things like that. THe more complex the system, the more liekly it is to do things like that from time to time. DO some reading on the "BEhaviour of complex systems"