The Press Was Always A Glitch Topic

cthomas22255
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Quote: Originally posted by vandydave on 5/29/2010thats where you are wrong, unfortunately pretty much any vet will tell you that while TK was a good guy, he didn't really seem to understand how the HD engine worked, which is rather remarkable, and why it had to be completely redesigned.and i say again, if you feel that i am guilty of wrongdoing with multiple accounts (which wis allows as the stucture of the game, which we both agree the structure, (not the 40 minute gameplay, the structure) isn't intended to imitate real life), please send a ticket with your accusations.

Tarek understood perfectly well that the HD press doubleteams all ball handlers all the time, a system that doesn't exist in real life. I thought that's what you said was unrealistic enough to be unprincipled to use.

My question is: why does an unrealistic gameplay design rankle you more worse than any other unrealistic aspect of this game? How can you claim on the one hand that the press gave coaches an "unfair" advantage, when you are benefiting from another "unfair" advantage of multiple IDs?

5/29/2010 11:47 AM
vandydave
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i have never used multiple IDs or FSS for any kind of advantage, as ive said repeatedly, if you feel that is inaccurate please send a ticket.

if you cant understand structure vs sim engine then we simply wont be able to find common ground.
5/29/2010 12:11 PM
cthomas22255
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Quote: Originally posted by vandydave on 5/29/2010i have never used multiple IDs or FSS for any kind of advantage, as ive said repeatedly, if you feel that is inaccurate please send a ticket.if you cant understand structure vs sim engine then we simply wont be able to find common ground.

Then I've never used the press for any kind of advantage, either. It is simply an option available to me that I exercise, completely principled because Admin says it's okay to use.
5/29/2010 12:17 PM
metsmax
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aside from attacking each other, and with apologies for coming back to the topic, I have some teams that run press and some that dont

so far my conclusions are

1. nuPress is closer to realistic than old press was

2. we all knew these changes - in this direction - were coming

3. nuPress will tend to

a. require more stamina

b. require deeper teams

c. require coaches to make some tougher recruiting choices - like, this kid really can be a star but I need to fill all my spots to run our press so I need to go for two solid kids rather than pour my $$ into the stud

d. push toward combos

I understand that some are surprised by this change, but I can say this is far from the biggest dislocation in the course of HD - and this one was amply foreshadowed. I'm adjusting my press teams - with varying degrees of success. Better where I have prepared more for the change, less well where I underestimated the effects of the new engine

overall, nuPress better than old, im my humble opinion
5/29/2010 12:33 PM
vandydave
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Quote: Originally Posted By cthomas22255 on 5/29/2010
Quote: Originally posted by vandydave on 5/29/201
i have never used multiple IDs or FSS for any kind of advantage, as ive said repeatedly, if you feel that is inaccurate please send a ticket.

if you cant understand structure vs sim engine then we simply wont be able to find common ground.

Then I've never used the press for any kind of advantage, either. It is simply an option available to me that I exercise, completely principled because Admin says it's okay to use.
if someone gave you an apple you'd probably call it an orange, since heck, they're both fruit.
5/29/2010 12:44 PM
emy1013
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Quote: Originally Posted By metsmax on 5/29/2010
aside from attacking each other, and with apologies for coming back to the topic, I have some teams that run press and some that dont

so far my conclusions are

1. nuPress is closer to realistic than old press was

2. we all knew these changes - in this direction - were coming

3. nuPress will tend to

a. require more stamina

b. require deeper teams

c. require coaches to make some tougher recruiting choices - like, this kid really can be a star but I need to fill all my spots to run our press so I need to go for two solid kids rather than pour my $$ into the stud

d. push toward combos

I understand that some are surprised by this change, but I can say this is far from the biggest dislocation in the course of HD - and this one was amply foreshadowed. I'm adjusting my press teams - with varying degrees of success. Better where I have prepared more for the change, less well where I underestimated the effects of the new engine

overall, nuPress better than old, im my humble opinion



I don't run the FCP with any of my teams (and don't for the same reason that Dave doesn't, honorable or just hard headed, who knows), so I haven't really had to deal with those effects, but I think this is very well stated. Coming from a coach that I really respect makes it sound even better.
5/29/2010 1:36 PM
cubenudger
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Seems like they could alleviate a lot of the complaints if they just made it easier to switch defenses. Not sure how realistic it is to take top level high school basketball players and assume they have NO idea how to run a zone or press or man to man (!) if they didn't run it in high school. Default everyone to C+-B IQ starting out and make it harder to get to A+. Almost no player in real life would have an "F" knowledge of zone or man to man (or play as badly as an "F" player in WIS would in those sets)

Sarsly, the only reason everyone is getting so passionate here is because it's unrealistically difficult to switch your team's defensive set in WIS, so people who are unhappy with how their's is performing are liocked in.
5/29/2010 3:34 PM
cubenudger
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FWIW, my team (D2 uptempo/flex, pressing) is doing great this season, but I always had designed my team on a "40 minutes of hell" model, running 11 guys deep, high defense and stamina etc. Seems a little unfair to expect other pressing teams to have that when it was never required of them in the past.
5/29/2010 3:37 PM
metsmax
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its actually easy to switch IF you plan ahead - folks who run press in worlds that are on the old engine would be well advised to divert 5 mins to practicing another defense and/or working on stamina and/or recruiting with the transition in mind
5/29/2010 5:14 PM
hughesjr
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Quote: Originally posted by metsmax on 5/29/2010aside from attacking each other, and with apologies for coming back to the topic, I have some teams that run press and some that dontso far my conclusions are1. nuPress is closer to realistic than old press was2.  we all knew these changes - in this direction - were coming3.  nuPress will tend to a. require more staminab. require deeper teamsc.  require coaches to make some tougher recruiting choices - like, this kid really can be a star but I need to fill all my spots to run our press so I need to go for two solid kids rather than pour my $$ into the studd. push toward combosI understand that some are surprised by this change, but I can say this is far from the biggest dislocation in the course of HD - and this one was amply foreshadowed.  I'm adjusting my press teams - with varying degrees of success.  Better where I have prepared more for the change, less well where I underestimated the effects of the new engineoverall, nuPress better than old, im my humble opinion
Actually, I just looked at the games played last night in Allen Div-I, top 25 and I did not see that there is any longer a depth / stamina issue.

The FCP teams seemed to foul a little bit more (but not as much as the earlier games) bit if they were 10 deep then they did not have stamina issues (at least the ones in the top 25 didn't).

The most fouls I saw from an FCP team was 27 and the fewest 17, both within the normal range for any team.


W - 4
L - 2

There was one possible upset (Miami(FL) beat by Louisville), but overall it looked to me like the FCP was working OK at least in the top 25.
5/29/2010 5:51 PM
cheeznsweet
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Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 5/29/2010
if someone gave you an apple you'd probably call it an orange, since heck, they're both fruit.
<popcorn>

BTW, this is such an awesome exchange - mostly because I'm in C-USA Phelan with both Vandy and cthomas. This could be an epic season.

cheeznsweet: You *don’t* have to answer that question!
Vandy: I'll answer the question!
[to cthomas]
Vandy: You want answers?
cthomas: I think I'm entitled.
Vandy: *You want answers?*
cthomas: *I want the truth!*
Vandy: *You can’t handle the truth!*
[pauses]
Vandy: Son, we play HD in a world that has open teams, and those teams need to have coaches. Whose gonna do it? You? You, nbstowman? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for the press, and you curse Seble. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That the presses death, while tragic, probably improved the game as a whole. And the fact that I have two teams in the same division in the same world, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, makes WIS more money and makes the game better for everyone. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me to coach that 2nd team, you need me to coach that 2nd team. We use words like principles, fairness, and guidelines. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent building teams that don't run FCP. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who runs the FCP and then questions the manner in which I run my teams. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up another team, and stop running the FCP. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think about me.
cthomas: Do you own two teams in the same division in the same world?
Vandy: I coach the teams I...
cthomas: *Do you own two teams in the same division in the same world?*
Vandy: *You’re Goddamned right I do!*
5/29/2010 7:09 PM
vandydave
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nice.
5/29/2010 7:57 PM
namshub
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that's some funny **** after the rest of the drivel.
5/29/2010 10:05 PM
namshub
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a very easy fix might be to force teams who run the press to run it in a combo D. so you pick up full court and then have to drop into one of the other base defenses. that way you would have to practice two D's and there would no longer be a straight FCP. seems simple enough. just notify that the change will be made a season in advance so teams only practicing the press have an opportunity to start practicing another D.

5/29/2010 10:08 PM
nbstowman
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Very funny Cheeznsweet. Nicely done.
5/29/2010 10:22 PM
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