Batting Order. Topic

Jtpsops
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I know I haven't played HBD yet, but I have to say that anyone who wouldn't sit his switch-hitter against lefties in Mike's example is a fool.

If a guy has a .500 OPS vs. lefties through 100 games, it would stand to reason he would fare the same through the last 62.  Ratings play a role, yes, but you all seem to be ignoring the fact that opposing pitchers and teams, ballparks, etc. all factor in.  If a guy is hitting that low late in the season, I'd rather believe there is SOME reason for it and make a change, then stubbornly assume that his ratings dictate everything and his stats will change, and watch my team go down the crapper.

"He SHOULD, therefore he WILL" is some of the most flawed logic in existence, no matter how you justify it.
6/26/2010 7:22 PM
zbrent716
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Posted by Jtpsops on 6/26/2010 7:22:00 PM (view original):
I know I haven't played HBD yet, but I have to say that anyone who wouldn't sit his switch-hitter against lefties in Mike's example is a fool.

If a guy has a .500 OPS vs. lefties through 100 games, it would stand to reason he would fare the same through the last 62.  Ratings play a role, yes, but you all seem to be ignoring the fact that opposing pitchers and teams, ballparks, etc. all factor in.  If a guy is hitting that low late in the season, I'd rather believe there is SOME reason for it and make a change, then stubbornly assume that his ratings dictate everything and his stats will change, and watch my team go down the crapper.

"He SHOULD, therefore he WILL" is some of the most flawed logic in existence, no matter how you justify it.
"If a guy has a .500 OPS vs. lefties through 100 games, it would stand to reason he would fare the same through the last 62."

This is not a true statement.
6/26/2010 7:23 PM
zbrent716
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/26/2010 7:20:00 PM (view original):
Because, as I said, I believe ratings drive the game.  His ratings haven't changed.   Assuming the "struggling" players is clearly better than his back-up, there is no reason to bench an 80 for a 40.   But, if I have 7 players producing and 1 failing, it makes sense to let the producing players get more AB.  If/when things start to change, you can make adjustments.   As we've agreed, a line-up consisting of the same 8 players isn't going to produce vastly different results regardless of the order.
But you would move a lesser hitter up in the lineup to get more AB based on stats.

I don't see how it makes logical sense for you to accept it as a basis for one and not the other.
6/26/2010 7:25 PM
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schuyler101
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/26/2010 7:20:00 PM (view original):
Because, as I said, I believe ratings drive the game.  His ratings haven't changed.   Assuming the "struggling" players is clearly better than his back-up, there is no reason to bench an 80 for a 40.   But, if I have 7 players producing and 1 failing, it makes sense to let the producing players get more AB.  If/when things start to change, you can make adjustments.   As we've agreed, a line-up consisting of the same 8 players isn't going to produce vastly different results regardless of the order.
This is a wildly inconsistent position

There is no reason to bench an 80 for a 40, but you'll move him in the order?
6/26/2010 11:09 PM
schuyler101
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/26/2010 6:48:00 PM (view original):
Well, zbrent actually admitted that, if EVERYTHING WAS THE SAME, he'd look at stats.    I don't think shuyler did.  So there's really no point in continuing forward with shuyler. 

So, zbrent, WHY would you look at stats?  The ratings didn't change.   And that seems to have been your position all along.   If you truly believe the ratings will eventually produce the expected results(which, by they way, I do too.  I'm just not willing to "waste" a season because I think, over his career, his ratings will match his stats), why base anything on stats?   Wouldn't he be more apt to start hitting lefties?
haha what? no point in continuing because i disagree with you?

well if you declare it so forum master

fyi zbrent's position is almost identical to mine...he said he'd go with the stats if it got that far, but it would never get to that point...i never mentioned it because i know it would never get to that point...
6/26/2010 11:12 PM
brrexkl
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  Wow... what did I start with this Thread?  LOL!
6/27/2010 5:33 AM
MikeT23
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Taking a player out of the line-up vs. dropping him 4 spots in the order.   You don't see the difference?   Odd.

FYI, zbrent said he'd eventually go by stats, you have insisted that you'd never base anything off stats.   That's why there is no point in continuing the disccussion with you.  Sorry if that is disturbing to you.  As I said before, I just don't find you that interesting.
6/27/2010 6:53 AM
brrexkl
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  Abilities (Ratings) are the only indicator of Future Performance.  BUT Stats are the only Indicator of ACTUAL PERFORMANCE.  One tells you what SHOULD happen moving forward.  The other tells you what HAS happened so far.  It doesn't tell you WHY it has happened, only WHAT has happened.

 
6/27/2010 11:01 AM
schuyler101
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Quote post by MikeT23 on 6/27/2010 6:53:00 AM:
Taking a player out of the line-up vs. dropping him 4 spots in the order.   You don't see the difference?   Odd.

FYI, zbrent said he'd eventually go by stats, you have insisted that you'd never base anything off stats.   That's why there is no point in continuing the disccussion with you.  Sorry if that is disturbing to you.  As I said before, I just don't find you that interesting.
 

Double Straw man alert!

I never said there was no difference.  I said it was a wildly inconsistent position.  I won't bother explaining to you how these 2 things are different, it's not my failing if you can't keep up.

Zbrent said he'd never get to the point where he'd have to go with stats.  I said the same thing in a subsequent post.  Do we need to use smaller words to explain these points to you?

Yeah I don't care if you find me interesting, I don't find you all that intelligent or capable of following a discussion, unfortunately you are omni-present in the forums so we are forced to deal with you. 

One more time MikeT23, you are not the forum master, and this is not your own personal discussion.  This isn't the ask MikeT thread and there are others here debating these points.  Sorry if these things bother you. 


 
6/27/2010 1:22 PM
mitchrapp
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Ooooh.
6/27/2010 2:00 PM
antonsirius
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Posted by brrexkl on 6/27/2010 5:33:00 AM (view original):
  Wow... what did I start with this Thread?  LOL!
You gave Mike an opening to monkey poke some people.

Unfortunately, he seems to have lost the plot a bit and ended up poking himself as much as them.
6/27/2010 2:19 PM
brrexkl
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  And no one ever said (outside of Mike, in a Site Mail) what order they would put my Line Up in once I posted it. :D
6/27/2010 2:36 PM
mitchrapp
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One thing this thread was good for, I got to see someone say Double Straw Man Alert. So I got that going for myself which is nice.
6/27/2010 2:42 PM
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