Connecticut shooting Topic

Posted by jiml60 on 12/18/2012 5:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 12/18/2012 2:56:00 PM (view original):
Realized that the left does not care about making a resonable law to limit some weapons.

This is their chance to ban as many guns as they can.

This isnt about safety with them, it is about power.

They have always wanted to ban all guns and now they think they can use this tragedy to get it.

Time to stand up against the anti-gun wacos and defend the millions of freedom loving Americans who own firearms!
You're full of ****...you have zero proof to back up any of those statements.
Unlike you I listen to the hearbeat of the left.

Stephanie Miller, Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartman and Ed Schultz.

They are calling for bans on all handguns. Any special ammo. All semi-autos.

This isnt about trying to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, this is about keeping guns out of the hands of all.

I was upset about the shooting and wanted to compromise. I dont hear compromise from the left.

I have been listening to hostility from the left and I realized that there is no middle ground for the left.
12/18/2012 6:34 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 12/18/2012 2:56:00 PM (view original):
Realized that the left does not care about making a resonable law to limit some weapons.

This is their chance to ban as many guns as they can.

This isnt about safety with them, it is about power.

They have always wanted to ban all guns and now they think they can use this tragedy to get it.

Time to stand up against the anti-gun wacos and defend the millions of freedom loving Americans who own firearms!
So Swamp, you are saying that you are willing to pay for these "rights" with the lives of your nieces and nephews" Just man up and say it.
12/18/2012 6:36 PM
We had a so-called "assualt gun" ban and crime went on.

The media continues to ignore crimes foiled by freedom loving armed citizens.

The left knows that gun bans dont reduce crime. They know that any bill will do nothing and they hope they can then sell more limits.

I realize the concept of freedom isnt as important as Central Government control to the left.

Men in suits in Washington are so much smarter than we are and should be able to tell us what to do at all times.
12/18/2012 6:42 PM
Posted by jiml60 on 12/18/2012 5:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by winnetka1 on 12/18/2012 3:58:00 PM (view original):
I'm an anti gun wacko...2nd amendment was for muskets...to protect the citizens from the tyranny of the government...our govt has drones, tanks etc...AK47's won't protect you from the tyranny of the govt now...abolish the 2nd amendment...no more guns...
Normally this would win the prize for stupidest comment but swamp beat him to it at 2:56.

apparently you think having an assault weapon will protect you from a drone attack (which goes to the intent behind the 2nd amendment-protection from tyranny)...who's being stupid now?

12/18/2012 6:47 PM
No matter how much you control the air you need to send in ground troops to control civilians. Assulat guns can kill them.

Also Assult guns cna destroy drones while taking off and landing or can destroy the air base itself.

The question is if you are trying to repel a foe, either foreign or Domestic, would you rather be armed or not?
12/18/2012 6:59 PM
Posted by winnetka1 on 12/18/2012 6:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jiml60 on 12/18/2012 5:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by winnetka1 on 12/18/2012 3:58:00 PM (view original):
I'm an anti gun wacko...2nd amendment was for muskets...to protect the citizens from the tyranny of the government...our govt has drones, tanks etc...AK47's won't protect you from the tyranny of the govt now...abolish the 2nd amendment...no more guns...
Normally this would win the prize for stupidest comment but swamp beat him to it at 2:56.

apparently you think having an assault weapon will protect you from a drone attack (which goes to the intent behind the 2nd amendment-protection from tyranny)...who's being stupid now?

You know, after thinking it over and trying to understand your reasoning, I have to apologize for my flippant response.

I think assault weapons should be banned, there is no need for citizens to have them and our society is so gun crazy that banning guns is not going to happen in this violent culture.  The only way to protect ourselves from the tyranny of our government is to eliminate the effectiveness of the gun lobby; elect officials who are not beholden to corporate power, because the police state that our cities are moving towards is at the behest of corporate power.

No guns in our society is a nice Utopian vision, I don't think we are civil enough to do what it takes to get there.

12/18/2012 8:01 PM
I realize the concept of freedom isnt as important as Central Government control to the left.

So when the right wants to restrict women's or gay rights, or protect the wealthy elite by pushing wages down for the working man, that's not a form of government control?
12/18/2012 8:07 PM
Jim I agree completely and thank you for your apology. I also agree that no guns is completely utopian and not even a possibility in our culture. We are one of the most violent nations in the world (if not THE most) and our people will refuse to give up their beloved guns....
12/18/2012 8:39 PM
Posted by jiml60 on 12/18/2012 8:07:00 PM (view original):
I realize the concept of freedom isnt as important as Central Government control to the left.

So when the right wants to restrict women's or gay rights, or protect the wealthy elite by pushing wages down for the working man, that's not a form of government control?
Can you list a Women's right the government has restricted in the last 50 years?

Can you explain what the government has done to push wages down?

You get to make up your own rant and you still miss!
12/19/2012 1:49 AM
Quote post by seamar_116 on 12/18/2012 4:34:00 AM:
Fencer, I stand corrected. My last time on base was at a sub base about 12-13 years ago.  So, you are saying that military bases are soft targets then? If that's the case then, that really guts the argument for needing the 2nd Amendment to protect us from the gov't does it not?

Again...what is the problem with banning hi-cap mags, and limiting ownership to hunting rifles and shotguns? Background checks, including gun shows? No cash and carry transactions?  How many guns should one person be allowed to own?  How about if a crime is committed with YOUR gun, you go to jail? And if it results in a death, it is a capital offense? 

Just asking for people to be responsible. We all want that, right?



Now a sub-base will have a heavier security presence than most.  Although I rarely saw so much as an SP during my 6 months at Pearl Harbor.  Back on MCBH Kaneohe Bay, there were the MPs and that was about it.  

In America, soldiers and Marines don't walk around armed every day.  During my 4 years in, not including 12 weeks of Boot Camp, or 3 weeks of Combat Training, I probably spent less than 3 months time armed with a rifle.  Now, I didn't say a loaded rifle.  The only time you had a loaded rifle on base was on the rifle range.

Forward deployment is a completely different situation.  If we the people, were defending ourselves, it would be from a government treating us as a threat.  Which means they would be locked and loaded 24/7.

A "soft target" could quickly change to a "hard target" once a situation happens.  But "quickly" is a very relative term.  At least on my base, every unit had their own armory.  Our armory had just one door, and one window (for pickup and return of firearms).  That means it would take time to deliver rifles and ammo to every member of the battalion.  


The problem with banning high-cap mags is the same one they had in 1994.  There is no tracking of magazines.  You can't take them away.  You don't know where to look for them.  The last time they gave a cutoff date for production.  Anything made before that date could be sold.  Glock execs got rich buying in bulk and selling them on the secondary market where it was perfectly legal to sell them.  You just couldn't buy a firearm with hi-caps.

Limiting ownership to hunting rifles and shotguns only?  Where do you draw the line?  I can use my AR-15 to hunt coyote and other small to medium-sized game.  The bullets shot by my AR-15 are smaller and less deadly than the ones that my .30-06 hunting rifle shoots.  I can buy multiple 5-round magazines for my hunting rifle and reload very quickly.

Background checks at gun shows.  A common misconception based on an ignorant view of the term "dealer".  All Federal Firearms Licensees MUST complete a background check, or receive an equivalent method from the purchaser.  That means I can use my Concealed Pistol License to purchase a handgun, rifle or shotgun, because the background check has already been done.  Failure to follow this LAW, can and most likely will, result in fines and the potential loss of that FFL.  

But we used the term "Dealer", which could just mean a private collector who is selling his personal collection at the show.  There is no federal, and very few, if any, State laws that require an individual to perform a background check or ask for a purchase permit or CPL (or equivalent) before selling a long gun (rifle or shotgun).  In many cases, this unlicensed dealer might have had an FFL in the past, but the BATFE has stopped renewing licenses unless the dealer has a storefront.  This means less License Holders operating out of their homes, but it means that a large portion of the Show Dealers no longer have to conduct background checks.
In fact, an individual CANNOT use the same check system as an FFL Dealer.  The FBI-National Instant Check System (NICS) can only be accessed by an FFL.

Of course, neither of these definitions covers us, if I run into Sergei at a gun show, and he sees that I'm trying to sell a rifle.  He sees it and decides he'd like it, him and I can leave the show and conduct a transaction that isn't regulated by anything by my gut feeling.  Do I THINK he's legal to own a firearm?  Sure, okay, here you go,  thanks for the cash.  Could we improve that?  I'm sure there is a way to do it.  I just don't know what it is outside of registration- and that isn't a good idea.  (See the original Red Dawn if you need to know why.)

There should never be a limit on how many guns one person can own, other than their personal finances.   Can you tell a guitar player that he can only own 1 acoustic and one electric?  See they have different purposes, so you can have one of each.  But you can't have a Gibson Les Paul Custom and a Fender American Stratocaster.  Forget about that Paul Reed Smith over there, you're already at your limit.
How about a baseball card collector?  I'm sorry sir, you can't buy this Mickey Mantle card because you already have a Willie Mays.  But I have a Barry Sanders or a Michael Jordan I can sell you.  

Does that sound ridiculous?  Then so should limiting firearms.

If a crime is committed with your firearms, and it is determined that you didn't take appropriate measures to keep them out of the hands of others, especially underage others, then you WILL be charged with a crime.  This already exists.
If I left a handgun out, and my roommate (which I don't have) takes it and kills someone, I'll most likely be charged as an accessory.  I might be able to beat it, but the charges would be made.  I would have to prove that I had taken appropriate measures to secure my guns from unlawful, or unintended access.  

Trust me, I want to see responsible owners.  I see people who aren't responsible every week.  I've had guns pointed at my chest on the range.  I've had them pointed at my face.  And those people get quite an earful of choice language.  Safety is paramount.  Just as it is with any potentially dangerous tool.

I know its long, and most of you probably didn't read it all.  But you should. 
12/19/2012 2:42 AM (edited)
I read it.  Well said and done.   The only armed guards I ever saw were around nuclear weapons, and since it was the cold war, understandable.   Otherwise, most parts of military bases are just as 'gun free' as schools, colleges, and movie theaters. 

I believe a teacher can be trained to carry a weapon, on a volunteer basis, and undergo training.    People will say "I don't want my kid's teacher armed" - well, if you don't trust your kid's teacher with a gun, why would you trust them without a gun?

Guns will not go away, ever.   And they will only be confiscated from Law abiding people anyway.  So, when I can walk anywhere I want to, central park or anywhere in Washington, DC or Chicago, knowing no one will try to harm me, I'll give up my weapons.  

I pledge to not be the only person who has a gun.    Let me know when I am, and you can watch me destroy mine.    Till then, I will keep mine.

It's not the government.  I think that is a red herring.   A soldier, in a volunteer army, will NOT kill unarmed  American civilians just because some politician is yelling at them.    That is the least of my worries.    Bad guys are my worry.  Murderering scum are my worries.   People who will calmly gun down innocents are my worries.



12/19/2012 5:55 AM
Fencer...i read every word because I respect your opinion. I just find it hard to say that the continued murder of innocents is the price we agree as a nation to pay for the right to own a gun, and the accessories that make mass murder in a short time possible.. And that we will do nothing to take any steps to try and end that situation. What changes if we do nothing?

As far as arming teachers....that's a joke. People ***** enough about incompetent teachers in the classroom, and now some want to give them guns as well? Also consider, that the type of person who becomes a teacher, or a doctor, or a nurse, is probably not one that is likely to want to carry in the first place.

12/19/2012 7:22 AM

A teacher that has no interest in protecting their students?   A nurse who would be willing to let 20 kids die because they don't want to cause an injury to a bad guy with intent to kill?     Just what the world needs more of.   
Next time I hear of a nurse getting raped and beaten/killed, I'll remember how principled they were, and revere their sticking to their beliefs.

 

12/19/2012 8:08 AM
A few of my best customers are teachers, nurses and doctors.
12/19/2012 9:37 AM
i got a question for you guys: i'm seeing stories that some people think that now schools should have guns there for the principals or whoever in case of such an attack. in my opinion, having a loaded gun in a school is just asking for trouble, but i can understand the reasoning behind it
would that situation be worth exploring or would it make things 'worse'?
12/19/2012 9:43 AM
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Connecticut shooting Topic

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