"...but again it is a principle tenant of The Gospel that our Earthly and fleshly desires must be subservient to those things concerning the Kingdom of Heaven."

And THERE lies the rub!! This has worked out well for the Catholic Priesthood hasn't it?
And the Baptists, and the ___________-.

You really think a GOD would create/design Human beings with physical needs and desires and then require those same humans to NOT act on their HUMAN desires/needs to achieve some kind of spiritual bliss??

That sounds really Crazy to me.
Wakan Tanka is NOT crazy!

Ussen requires nothing.
Except understanding.

Learning to be still.
Appreciation of what we have. A garden. Created for US!

Stop your judgmental BullS**t!!
Love one another as commanded.

And, (of course) Walk in Beauty!

The rest of it is manmade BULLpucky!!

Posted by laramiebob on 7/14/2022 9:36:00 AM (view original):
"...but again it is a principle tenant of The Gospel that our Earthly and fleshly desires must be subservient to those things concerning the Kingdom of Heaven."

And THERE lies the rub!! This has worked out well for the Catholic Priesthood hasn't it?
And the Baptists, and the ___________-.

You really think a GOD would create/design Human beings with physical needs and desires and then require those same humans to NOT act on their HUMAN desires/needs to achieve some kind of spiritual bliss??

That sounds really Crazy to me.
Wakan Tanka is NOT crazy!

Ussen requires nothing.
Except understanding.

Learning to be still.
Appreciation of what we have. A garden. Created for US!

Stop your judgmental BullS**t!!
Love one another as commanded.

And, (of course) Walk in Beauty!

The rest of it is manmade BULLpucky!!

That's not a very coherent response and somehow you've also accused me of being judgemental?

Rather than rebut or ask for examples where I've been judgemental, think I'll pass on this bullpucky

Posted by bruceleefan on 7/14/2022 10:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 7/14/2022 9:36:00 AM (view original):
"...but again it is a principle tenant of The Gospel that our Earthly and fleshly desires must be subservient to those things concerning the Kingdom of Heaven."

And THERE lies the rub!! This has worked out well for the Catholic Priesthood hasn't it?
And the Baptists, and the ___________-.

You really think a GOD would create/design Human beings with physical needs and desires and then require those same humans to NOT act on their HUMAN desires/needs to achieve some kind of spiritual bliss??

That sounds really Crazy to me.
Wakan Tanka is NOT crazy!

Ussen requires nothing.
Except understanding.

Learning to be still.
Appreciation of what we have. A garden. Created for US!

Stop your judgmental BullS**t!!
Love one another as commanded.

And, (of course) Walk in Beauty!

The rest of it is manmade BULLpucky!!

That's not a very coherent response and somehow you've also accused me of being judgemental?

Rather than rebut or ask for examples where I've been judgemental, think I'll pass on this bullpucky

Agreed.
Did you read my long post above ?
It starts on page 6.

Posted by bruceleefan on 7/14/2022 10:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 7/14/2022 9:36:00 AM (view original):
"...but again it is a principle tenant of The Gospel that our Earthly and fleshly desires must be subservient to those things concerning the Kingdom of Heaven."

And THERE lies the rub!! This has worked out well for the Catholic Priesthood hasn't it?
And the Baptists, and the ___________-.

You really think a GOD would create/design Human beings with physical needs and desires and then require those same humans to NOT act on their HUMAN desires/needs to achieve some kind of spiritual bliss??

That sounds really Crazy to me.
Wakan Tanka is NOT crazy!

Ussen requires nothing.
Except understanding.

Learning to be still.
Appreciation of what we have. A garden. Created for US!

Stop your judgmental BullS**t!!
Love one another as commanded.

And, (of course) Walk in Beauty!

The rest of it is manmade BULLpucky!!

That's not a very coherent response and somehow you've also accused me of being judgemental?

Rather than rebut or ask for examples where I've been judgemental, think I'll pass on this bullpucky

I'm sorry you took my post personal.
It was decidedly NOT.

The responses were in general to those who evangelize (here) in this internet thread and IF you saw yourself in the "judgmental" portion of my response........well then, that's on you.

I (however) did use the word "your", which was my bad and caused the confusion.......... it would have been better had I typed "stop THE judgmental Bull..."
which was my actual attempt.

So, I do apologize for the error and the slight on your good character.
I have NO knowledge of YOU individually being a judgmental "Christian".

Most here in these threads are just that.

Dino, there is so much to unpack in your lengthy post, I am going to try and address it piece by piece.

“Bruce - you are a scholar. Let me address some of your comments.

I know nothing about wearing a pin and perhaps that was in the old testament or not. I can hardly believe that anyone anywhere would have that lead to calling those Rabbis disgusting. It is extremely trivial to wear a pin”.

°"It is a statement about rationalize the start of christianity the Paul and Roman way.

The jewish laws and rituals continued to carry on without complaint and it is still true for orthodox jews who represent an extremely large number of jews who live today after extermination attempts by christian germans and Roman mass murders and crusades and pogroms and inquisitions. All of that was done by people considering themselves christian. They were not inspired to do good.”

"As for your comment about meekness again you are on the right track. First of all who really knows if Jesus said the meek will inherit the earth.

The jewish population were offended by his claims to being a messiah and any claims of some type of divinity and still are today. That a human cannot be worshiped as God or be God in some way violates one the core beliefs of Judaism.

The old testament God was mystery and not an imaginable visible being and certainly not to be compared or inside of a human.

This is absolutely crucial to your understanding".

"As for denouncing him as a false messiah , it stems from the fact that he was not the definition of the messiah. The belief in a messiah was only about 150 years old before the time of Jesus and it was the hope for a strong and powerful and successful military leader. There were such false messiahs before jesus and after. One in fact who had a much higher following led an unsuccessful military campaign. There was a coin made with his image".

Again this could be attributed to the “scales” God put on the eyes of the Jews.

---

There was at some point (exactly when I couldn’t say, as I am not nearly well versed in Jewish writings beyond what is contained in the OT) some school of thought among some number of Rabbis who believed there were 2 separate Messiahs described in the Tanakh.

---

“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!

Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem!

Behold, your king is coming to you;

He is just and endowed with salvation,

Humble, and mounted on a donkey,

Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

And He will speak peace to the nations;

And His dominion will be from sea to sea,

And from the River to the ends of the earth”.

---

"What irks me is the thought that the jewish people were obligated to recognize divinity in Jesus".

I believe this was addressed fairly well 2 posts ago. There are some faction of Christians who believe they are called to proselytize Jews as well.

"Jesus had a small following of cowards and a betrayer. Even they did not recognize divinity until after his death.

Surely followers of a man promising an afterlife and being divine would inspire greater loyalty and courage and devotion.

In my opinion Jesus was not more courageous then soldiers fighting a jungle war in vietnam or firefighters or policeman. They go what they do for the greater good and to protect lives and not for entrance into heaven"

"And why would Jesus be frightened the night before if he knew he was going to heaven by his perfect knowledge".

This dichotomy can only be understood if one accepts the Christian teaching of the Trinity.

---

One part of this Trinity, Jesus the Christ, emptied his divinity and became flesh, resulting in a “dual nature”.
While He very well knew the end result would be Glory and ascension, his flesh still felt pain and basic human emotion.

---

That fleshly side was scared for his life. He knew it would be an excruciatingly vicious and painful death.

---

It is the single reason, according to Christian teachings, why Jesus is solely qualified to be an arbiter for us, as he walked among us and felt the burdens of the flesh living in a fallen world.

"I respect your beliefs but I disagree with having blind faith in every word and episode".

This I completely understand. It may sound strange, but I can assure you I could write pages discrediting the Bible even more convincing than you or even outright atheists could. There are numerous issues that I couldn’t begin to adequately explain or defend.

"Jesus as someone who believed entirely in the old testament literally observed the laws and rituals.

He certainly did not criticize kashrut. He stressed love thy neighbor that preceded him in the old testament".

"Jesus said he was there for only the jews so he was not preaching a religion meant for the rest of the world".

This is also true. According to Christian teaching, the command to preach the Gospel to gentiles didn’t come until after His ascension, and was commanded by the 3rd part of the Trinity called The Holy Spirit.

"Much of the passages of his capture and execution is written to please the Romans who became the christians. It was they who would not accept Jesus if they also had to follow the laws of the old testament.

They could not at all change their diet to kosher and Paul told them they did not have to. Who can imagine them wearing a talis and yamulka or not working on the sabbath or speaking hebrew etc".