Diagnostics for Leadoff Hitters II Topic

toddcommish
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Actually, some other moron ran some numbers for starting pitchers. It shows that when K-rate declined, runs went up.
2/20/2008 7:21 PM
_nuke_
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Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/20/2008

You can't answer, can you?
If you say yes, that your argument is that striking out less helps teams score more runs, you'd have to produce some sort of evidence contrary to what Bill and I have presented. And it doesn't exist.
If you say no, that you don't think teams score more runs when they strikeout less...well...you're a moron who argues just for the sake of arguing.
At least it's settled.
2/20/2008 7:22 PM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/20/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/20/2008

You can't answer, can you?
If you say yes, that your argument is that striking out less helps teams score more runs, you'd have to produce some sort of evidence contrary to what Bill and I have presented. And it doesn't exist.
If you say no, that you don't think teams score more runs when they strikeout less...well...you're a moron who argues just for the sake of arguing.
At least it's settled.
You're missing my point. Are you being obtuse?

Anyway, I'm saying that for the majority of games where the strikeout rate stays within a "normal" range, that K-rate and Runs are totally un-related.

However, once you get a couple of standard deviations away, then I think you'll see a definite relationship between K's and Runs.
2/20/2008 7:23 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/20/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/20/2008

I offered you a fair wager, you ran screaming from it like a little girl. I see no point in continuing this discussion.
2/20/2008 7:23 PM
_nuke_
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Quote: Originally Posted By toddcommish on 2/20/2008
Actually, some other moron ran some numbers for starting pitchers. It shows that when K-rate declined, runs went up.
Well, yeah. Pitchers who strikeout a lot of batters tend to be better pitchers.

2/20/2008 7:24 PM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/20/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/20/2008

You can't answer, can you?
If you say yes, that your argument is that striking out less helps teams score more runs, you'd have to produce some sort of evidence contrary to what Bill and I have presented. And it doesn't exist.
If you say no, that you don't think teams score more runs when they strikeout less...well...you're a moron who argues just for the sake of arguing.
At least it's settled.
Asked and answered.
2/20/2008 7:24 PM
_nuke_
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/20/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/20/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/20/2008

I offered you a fair wager, you ran screaming from it like a little girl. I see no point in continuing this discussion.
I accepted, so what's your problem?
2/20/2008 7:25 PM
_nuke_
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Quote: Originally Posted By toddcommish on 2/20/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/20/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/20/2008

You can't answer, can you?
If you say yes, that your argument is that striking out less helps teams score more runs, you'd have to produce some sort of evidence contrary to what Bill and I have presented. And it doesn't exist.
If you say no, that you don't think teams score more runs when they strikeout less...well...you're a moron who argues just for the sake of arguing.
At least it's settled.
Asked and answered
I'm talking to Mike.
2/20/2008 7:25 PM
_nuke_
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Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/20/2008

so Mike, you're going to ignore my quesion now?
Is your argument that teams that strikeout less do score more runs?
2/20/2008 7:26 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/20/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By toddcommish on 2/20/2008

Actually, some other moron ran some numbers for starting pitchers. It shows that when K-rate declined, runs went up.
Well, yeah. Pitchers who strikeout a lot of batters tend to be better pitchers.





How come? Isn't "an out an out"?
2/20/2008 7:29 PM
toddcommish
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Boy, these guys are total geeks. I think the answer is in here somewhere...
It correlates BABIP (batting average of balls in play) - which separates strikeouts and walks from batted balls - with ERA.
2/20/2008 7:29 PM
MikeT23
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So how much is our bet?
14 K+ in a game run average vs 13 or less K in a game run average
2/20/2008 7:30 PM
toddcommish
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"From the unit impact we can see the effect of a one-unit change in the pitching statistic on ERA. In this sample, an increase of one strikeout per nine innings lowered a pitcher's ERA by about 0.17. The percentage impact (or elasticity) tells us the percentage change of ERA in response to a 1% change in the statistic. So, a 1% increase in K9 lowered ERA by 0.24% (the percent changes are calculated at the average values of the statistic and the ERA). The percentage impact helps us judge the impact of the different metrics relative to their normal values. For example, the unit impact of every walk is nearly twice that of a strikeout; however, in terms of the average number of walks and strikeouts their percentage impacts on ERA are nearly identical."
2/20/2008 7:30 PM
toddcommish
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Man, i thought YOU guys were boring...
2/20/2008 7:31 PM
_nuke_
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Quote: Originally Posted By toddcommish on 2/20/2008
"From the unit impact we can see the effect of a one-unit change in the pitching statistic on ERA. In this sample, an increase of one strikeout per nine innings lowered a pitcher's ERA by about 0.17. The percentage impact (or elasticity) tells us the percentage change of ERA in response to a 1% change in the statistic. So, a 1% increase in K9 lowered ERA by 0.24% (the percent changes are calculated at the average values of the statistic and the ERA). The percentage impact helps us judge the impact of the different metrics relative to their normal values. For example, the unit impact of every walk is nearly twice that of a strikeout; however, in terms of the average number of walks and strikeouts their percentage impacts on ERA are nearly identical."
But when you talk about it from a pitcher's perspective, you're dealing with their ability to avoid allowing baserunners. Because pitchers who strikeout a lot of hitters tend to be the best pitchers, they are good at preventing baserunners. So the strikeout is an indicator of dominance but not necessarily the cause.

It doesn't change the value(or lack thereof) of an out.
2/20/2008 7:35 PM
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