The Mad Scientist Top 25 Ranking Debate Topic

dalter
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Quote: Originally Posted By grantduck on 11/17/2009
With recruiting, why is it always tied to prestige most strongly?

Couldn't a player just like your school for whatever reason?

I mean, Oklahoma isn't a top tier hoops program and they landed Blake Griffin.

Same with guys like Malik Hairston going to Oregon from Detroit with Oregon not being an elite hoops program.


Now, do the majority of those players choose the UNC's of the world? Yes, but I feel like sometimes a lower tier school should get "lucky" in recruiting.
Way, way, way more 4- and 5-star players sign with non-elite programs in HD than in real life. And prestige plays a significantly smaller factor in HD than in real life.

Not to mention the fact that your examples, Oklahoma and Oregon, while not UNC/Duke elite, are both very strong programs. Teams like those routinely sign top players in HD. (OK's been to the NT 13 of the last 15 seasons, and seeded 6th or better in the NT 8 of the last 10. And yes, I just looked at their media guide, lol.) I mean, there aren't enough schollies for every blue chip kid to sign with one of the top 5-10 schools.
11/18/2009 4:33 AM
dalter
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Quote: Originally Posted By grantduck on 11/17/2009Finally, what's the latest on Durability?

I know that was the first thing they said to start recruiting more of because of potential updates, but what exactly is going to be the change with durability?

Is it going to factor into rebounding or defense more?

Will players get worn down over the course of a season?

Or is it merely going to be players with low DUR getting injured more?

It's just going to relate to injuries.
11/18/2009 4:52 AM
dalter
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Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 11/17/2009

also, with #1, will the engine be taking into account the fact that in m2m or fcp, the player defending him will most likely not be a good low post defender? whereas when posting up against a zone, he will have to go up against a bigman.

does that make any sense at all
Interesting. The engine is not that advanced, it doesn't separate lp defender from pe defender.

That said, I don't think it's as straightforward as you're making it out to be. Some guards might be great defenders down low (particularly ones who are bigger and/or longer and/or more physical), while plenty of bigs wouldn't be nearly quick enough to even get near a guard coming into the lane.
11/18/2009 4:56 AM
jaggedendz
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How would you make a PG or SG post up on their defender? just use minus 1 or 2 settings?
11/18/2009 7:58 AM
oldave
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i think you are pulling out some exceptions and making the to be the rule, dalltee.

but i agree that the engine is not that advanced.

im just trying to figure out what kinds of shots these LP-SGs are going to be taking.

and what other attributes will need to be paired with the good LP to make this SG a better offensive player.
11/18/2009 7:59 AM
oldwarrior
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Quote: Originally Posted By grantduck on 11/17/2009
With recruiting, why is it always tied to prestige most strongly?

Couldn't a player just like your school for whatever reason?

I mean, Oklahoma isn't a top tier hoops program and they landed Blake Griffin.

Same with guys like Malik Hairston going to Oregon from Detroit with Oregon not being an elite hoops program.


Now, do the majority of those players choose the UNC's of the world? Yes, but I feel like sometimes a lower tier school should get "lucky" in recruiting.
Wouldn't Oklahoma be considered a top 20-40 program in RL? I don't think it's unusual for a HD B+/A- prestige team landing a local 5-star stud.

I think a big difference in HD recruiting vs RL is that RL coaches have built up connections in certain areas and can recruit in those areas almost as if a local school.

For Oregon, Ernie Kent is from Illinois and still has some solid connections in Chicago. Also throw in a little bit of love from the Nike programs. Check out the Ducks scholarship players; 4 guys from Illinois, 1 from Michigan and 1 from Wisconsin. Plus a block of guys from the Southeast with 1 player each from GA, MS, AL,& LA. Finally three 3-stars from Oregon. I think what people get on him for is not keeping the local 5-star guys; ie.. Kevin Love and Kyle Singler.

If Oregon brought in a new coach with Texas ties or with roots in Southern California, the geographical makeup of the future roster would look much different than the current one.

11/18/2009 10:18 AM
ronm605
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Driving to the hoop and getting a layup is not a low post play, I do hope the sim engine differentiates that from feeding someone in the low post making back to the basket shots.
11/18/2009 10:32 AM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By ronm605 on 11/18/2009Driving to the hoop and getting a layup is not a low post play, I do hope the sim engine differentiates that from feeding someone in the low post making back to the basket shots
It appears that the new engine will use LP to mean scoring ability in the paint.
11/18/2009 11:01 AM
vandydave
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and the concept of low post moves will disappear?
11/18/2009 11:11 AM
zhawks
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Here is my question. Currently Small Forwards have the best average LP+PER, especially at high level d1. These guys also have solid if not great SPD/ATH combos - with the new update does that mean these guys will end up being ultimate scorers?

I think if the engine is going to go in this direction then we need to have either A) broken down what 'LP' means and why does it have to be used for guards? and what does changing it to mean something for guards (sure a good theory) mean for the rest of the players? B) How dose this effect an opposing players DE? What is factored in there? If we are going to improve the Offensive output of players the same improvement needs to be made on the Defensive end of the Engine otherwise I fear we are going to have a few season's of Steroid Scorers.
11/18/2009 11:18 AM
mlatsko1
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My biggest fear about this transition is how bad FG% is going to be affected. I see it heading off into a bad place. (I expect the low side)
11/18/2009 11:22 AM
aporter
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Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 11/18/2009Here is my question. Currently Small Forwards have the best average LP+PER, especially at high level d1. These guys also have solid if not great SPD/ATH combos - with the new update does that mean these guys will end up being ultimate scorers? I think if the engine is going to go in this direction then we need to have either A) broken down what 'LP' means and why does it have to be used for guards? and what does changing it to mean something for guards (sure a good theory) mean for the rest of the players? B) How dose this effect an opposing players DE? What is factored in there? If we are going to improve the Offensive output of players the same improvement needs to be made on the Defensive end of the Engine otherwise I fear we are going to have a few season's of Steroid Scorers.

I don't anything changes for SF's. PG's with LP can know pull up in the lane to hit a shot, so the PG with 30 LP now that skill is not being wasted in the future.
11/18/2009 11:25 AM
jskenner
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aporter, I've never been a big reader of PBP details. Do you know if the current engine includes guards taking it to the basket and/or shooting pullups in the lane? I always assumed so, and that this was more-or-less governed by ATH, SPD, BH and IQ.
11/18/2009 12:04 PM
weirdrash
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So does this mean that a SG with High LP, High Sp and High BH will drive the lane and shoot a lot more layups than a typical SG? Also should get to the free throw line more often.

I would like that development :)
11/18/2009 12:56 PM
Fregoe
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one thing no one has really mentioned either is that Bigmen with PE will now probably become very valuable..... having bigmen who can play the Per will probably change the game and make matchups tuff.... they might have to add some kind of way for us to match players up instead of match positions up when playing m2m
11/18/2009 1:25 PM
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