Seriously? 72 fouls/95FT Topic

dalter
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Posted by hughesjr on 6/27/2010 5:51:00 PM (view original):
Come on ... you are either running the FCP or you aren't.  There is no FCP where but don't really FCP.

Sure they can dumb down the defense at the end of the game ... I have no problem with them doing it.  But I don't think you should expect it, especially since it is coachable. 

My suggestion is that if you want to FCP, you should also practice another defense because the FCP is not as well suited for some situations as other defenses.  It just isn't well rounded.  You might need another defense for the end of the game if you are winning.  Just like you might need a press if you are losing and you only practiced zone.

Don't most real teams practice some kind of press to run if they fall behind.  Don't most real teams have the ability to run Zone and M2M in different situations?

All I am saying is, there is more than one way to play this game.  Am I tired of you, dalter, thinking you are the king of this game.  As I said before, I will own you at this game at some point.
Yeah, you keep saying that (although it's very quickly gone from "the next few months" to "at some point"). And I offered to place as large a wager as you wanted, and you conveniently ignored that. So enough idle chatter on that -- either put up or shut up.

(And of course there's more than one way to play the game. I've said dozens of times that one of the things I like about HD is that there are so many ways to go about building a successful team, and you can ask successful coaches the same question and get very different answers. But that doesn't mean that every way to play is optimal, or that something you suggest is correct simply because there are different strategies you can use to win.) 

You saying, "Don't most real teams have the ability to run multiple defenses and practices multiple defenses" is irrelevant. Of course they do. But we should all know that the way multiple sets are run, player iq's work and the practice time needed in HD bears basically no resemblance to those items in real life. Hell, in the rec league I just got done playing in, I saw numerous teams switch between m2m and zone during the course of a game without a problem. But it doesn't work like that in HD.

I don't really need to debate this issue with you any more, because in the grand scheme of things it's a small, fairly irrelevant one that for me just represents a microcosm of your sniveling apologist approach. It's not this stance of yours that irks me and destroys your credibility, it's the non-stop apologist stuff, knowing what you're going to say in every post before anyone even reads it. How does seble's **** taste?


6/27/2010 8:58 PM (edited)
antonsirius
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I don't have any antipathy towards dalter, isack. We've disagreed at times, agreed at others. Nothing particularly personal, at least on my end.

You also don't seem to have much of a clue what the phrase "losing your ****" actually means. You should probably stick to using phrases you understand.
6/27/2010 8:56 PM
dalter
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anton, it was flat-out suggested that a press team should practice another defense to play it for the last minute or two of games when you're winning, and that's what I was responded to.

Do you really think that is a good suggestion?
6/27/2010 9:02 PM
furry_nipps
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Good suggestion? No, but if you don't want to foul it might really be your only choice. That is all. I wouldn't recommend doing it, but if you don't want to give up fouls don't play an aggressive defence that fouls the most.
6/27/2010 9:16 PM
isack24
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Posted by antonsirius on 6/27/2010 8:57:00 PM (view original):
I don't have any antipathy towards dalter, isack. We've disagreed at times, agreed at others. Nothing particularly personal, at least on my end.

You also don't seem to have much of a clue what the phrase "losing your ****" actually means. You should probably stick to using phrases you understand.
I used it in the exact same way you did - but nice try.
6/27/2010 9:36 PM
isack24
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Posted by furry_nipps on 6/27/2010 9:16:00 PM (view original):
Good suggestion? No, but if you don't want to foul it might really be your only choice. That is all. I wouldn't recommend doing it, but if you don't want to give up fouls don't play an aggressive defence that fouls the most.
Orrrrrr.........the engine could make sense.
6/27/2010 9:36 PM
antonsirius
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Posted by isack24 on 6/27/2010 9:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by antonsirius on 6/27/2010 8:57:00 PM (view original):
I don't have any antipathy towards dalter, isack. We've disagreed at times, agreed at others. Nothing particularly personal, at least on my end.

You also don't seem to have much of a clue what the phrase "losing your ****" actually means. You should probably stick to using phrases you understand.
I used it in the exact same way you did - but nice try.
Except for the part that I wasn't displaying any evidence that I was losing my ****, in any way, shape or form.

Thanks for confirming that you're the kind of person who's proud of your own ignorance though.
6/27/2010 10:02 PM
antonsirius
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Posted by dalter on 6/27/2010 9:02:00 PM (view original):
anton, it was flat-out suggested that a press team should practice another defense to play it for the last minute or two of games when you're winning, and that's what I was responded to.

Do you really think that is a good suggestion?
Since the combo defense addition all those seasons ago, I have never played FCP without having a second defense I could mix in and fall back on in matchups and situations FCP didn't seem appropriate for.

If you want to view the original statement as "have a second defense exclusively for the last minute of the game" -- which you did because you're ******* on every single thing hughes says, and are going to take the narrowest possible interpretation of it -- then sure, there are probably better things you can do with those practice minutes. If, on the other hand, you view the statement as "have a second defense because FCP is a stupid thing to run in certain situations, such as protecting a lead in the last minute" then I have a hard time seeing how anyone could find fault with it.

This whole argument is stupid though, if you ask me. The correct explanation for the 30 point explosion is that is was a combination of engine flaws when it comes to the timing of plays (which is not a new thing at all) combined with dumb game planning (which is new, insofar as it was something you could probably get away with in the old engine, but apparently can't get away with now).
6/27/2010 10:17 PM
furry_nipps
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Posted by isack24 on 6/27/2010 9:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by furry_nipps on 6/27/2010 9:16:00 PM (view original):
Good suggestion? No, but if you don't want to foul it might really be your only choice. That is all. I wouldn't recommend doing it, but if you don't want to give up fouls don't play an aggressive defence that fouls the most.
Orrrrrr.........the engine could make sense.
There is no way to make it make sense when a coach has a game plan that makes no sense for end of game situation. No team EVER would run a full court press the whole time while in lead - even a "light" press. They just wouldn't. You got accept that the engine isn't going to make sense in results if you run questionable sets in questionable situations. If you run a 2-3 -5 vrs a team who shoots 62 3's a game its not going to be pretty. If you play an aggressive def during a consevative time in the game it isn't going to make sense.
6/27/2010 10:17 PM
isack24
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Posted by antonsirius on 6/27/2010 10:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 6/27/2010 9:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by antonsirius on 6/27/2010 8:57:00 PM (view original):
I don't have any antipathy towards dalter, isack. We've disagreed at times, agreed at others. Nothing particularly personal, at least on my end.

You also don't seem to have much of a clue what the phrase "losing your ****" actually means. You should probably stick to using phrases you understand.
I used it in the exact same way you did - but nice try.
Except for the part that I wasn't displaying any evidence that I was losing my ****, in any way, shape or form.

Thanks for confirming that you're the kind of person who's proud of your own ignorance though.

Neither was dalter.

Glad you're the kind of person who fails to see the obvious point of a parallel post.

6/27/2010 10:34 PM
isack24
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Posted by antonsirius on 6/27/2010 10:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dalter on 6/27/2010 9:02:00 PM (view original):
anton, it was flat-out suggested that a press team should practice another defense to play it for the last minute or two of games when you're winning, and that's what I was responded to.

Do you really think that is a good suggestion?
Since the combo defense addition all those seasons ago, I have never played FCP without having a second defense I could mix in and fall back on in matchups and situations FCP didn't seem appropriate for.

If you want to view the original statement as "have a second defense exclusively for the last minute of the game" -- which you did because you're ******* on every single thing hughes says, and are going to take the narrowest possible interpretation of it -- then sure, there are probably better things you can do with those practice minutes. If, on the other hand, you view the statement as "have a second defense because FCP is a stupid thing to run in certain situations, such as protecting a lead in the last minute" then I have a hard time seeing how anyone could find fault with it.

This whole argument is stupid though, if you ask me. The correct explanation for the 30 point explosion is that is was a combination of engine flaws when it comes to the timing of plays (which is not a new thing at all) combined with dumb game planning (which is new, insofar as it was something you could probably get away with in the old engine, but apparently can't get away with now).
And because of your obvious infatuation with dalter's purported hughes-infatuation, you failed (again) to realize that hughes wasn't the person dalter was talking about.
6/27/2010 10:36 PM
isack24
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Posted by furry_nipps on 6/27/2010 10:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 6/27/2010 9:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by furry_nipps on 6/27/2010 9:16:00 PM (view original):
Good suggestion? No, but if you don't want to foul it might really be your only choice. That is all. I wouldn't recommend doing it, but if you don't want to give up fouls don't play an aggressive defence that fouls the most.
Orrrrrr.........the engine could make sense.
There is no way to make it make sense when a coach has a game plan that makes no sense for end of game situation. No team EVER would run a full court press the whole time while in lead - even a "light" press. They just wouldn't. You got accept that the engine isn't going to make sense in results if you run questionable sets in questionable situations. If you run a 2-3 -5 vrs a team who shoots 62 3's a game its not going to be pretty. If you play an aggressive def during a consevative time in the game it isn't going to make sense.
WiSs' press doesn't make any sense because it's not a real defense.  No team plays WiS's version of the press.  So no one can say what that defense should or shouldn't do.

Here's an idea: eliminate the press as a base defense (and fb as a base offense).
6/27/2010 10:40 PM
brrexkl
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  Isack "Eliminate the Press as a Base Defense".  On an individual bases we already can.  It's called "Don't Run the Press".

 Antonsirius  "Since the combo defense addition all those seasons ago, I have never played FCP without having a second defense I could mix in and fall back on in matchups and situations FCP didn't seem appropriate for."  This seems like a Reasonable Approach.  After all, you could also use that 2nd Defense when Up 12 in the 1st Half, etc.  It wouldn't always JUST be a Last Minute Defense.  It would have uses whenever you had a lead, thus getting more play and thus being more valuable.  After all, TIME is crucial when a team is down, so every time you can force them to take time to shoot you're helping your chances to win. It DOES have a Negative, or Cost... that is SOME player Growth.
6/28/2010 4:30 AM
treyomo
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For your entertainment - a pressing DIII Monmouth team committed 49 fouls vs. my Yellowjackets last night.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/GameResults/BoxScore.aspx?gid=5884843
6/28/2010 10:49 AM
isack24
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Posted by brrexkl on 6/28/2010 4:30:00 AM (view original):
  Isack "Eliminate the Press as a Base Defense".  On an individual bases we already can.  It's called "Don't Run the Press".

 Antonsirius  "Since the combo defense addition all those seasons ago, I have never played FCP without having a second defense I could mix in and fall back on in matchups and situations FCP didn't seem appropriate for."  This seems like a Reasonable Approach.  After all, you could also use that 2nd Defense when Up 12 in the 1st Half, etc.  It wouldn't always JUST be a Last Minute Defense.  It would have uses whenever you had a lead, thus getting more play and thus being more valuable.  After all, TIME is crucial when a team is down, so every time you can force them to take time to shoot you're helping your chances to win. It DOES have a Negative, or Cost... that is SOME player Growth.
I still have to play against the press and fastbreak.  That affects my team.

No team runs the press like WiS's version.  In reality, to press in the backcourt at all times, trap in the halfcourt, and then also run fastbreak (if that's what they're doing), a team would have to have 12 guys with 90+ staminas, and even then, who knows?

It's time to get rid of press/fastbreak as base defense/offense.
6/28/2010 11:23 AM
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