Posted by shoe3 on 4/29/2022 6:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie on 4/29/2022 2:56:00 PM (view original):
pulldowns and dropdowns were too complicated for d3 teams, for new coaches. at least before 3.0, admins were clear about what was supposed to be possible, instead of the 'strategic ambiguity with buggy code at best and intentional deception at worst' strategy that was in place when i first started. so that was better, but making that less confusing for d3 coaches was a goal of seble's, as i understand it. i thought that was a good goal, but i was blown away by the way he went about achieving it.
maybe i am wrong about the scouting thing being the impetus. it sure looks that way from that thread, but like i said, i didn't remember that was the start of it all. that was the kick off thread i think... but perhaps that was just 1/2 and that was intentional from the beginning. absolutely though, there was enormous scope creep and major side effects from what seble had told us he was cooking up, casually, from before that thread. i don't remember what all he was going for anymore, from the beginning, its all kinda hazy.
but regardless - IMO d3 recruiting got more complicated, not less. i don't think you need to neuter d3 in the way is shoe is talking about, to get to where i'm trying to go. not a dumbed down version of the game for noobs. but, it shouldn't have major additional complexity on top of d1, and it does. i am just advocating for d1-style recruiting, in a less competitive format. a d3 only pool for d3 only teams is pretty darn similar to the experience in high d1, where most folks ignore d2/d3 teams and where d2/d3 teams have pretty minimal impact on their lives, at least directly. i agree with shoe there is some indirect impact, especially about d2 schools signing so many d1 pool recruits at the start of RS2. but i wouldn't agree that d3 schools have a major impact on d1, indirectly or otherwise. and i don't agree with shoe that this is really about d1 schools, for all the coaches having this conversation. maybe for some, i doubt its the majority, but perhaps. at least for me, i don't give a damn about d3 schools recruiting from the d1 pool, from my own d1 team's perspective.
Yeah pulldowns/dropdowns still exist, in function, and what seble did was basically remove the vision concept, where high prestige teams can reach higher. Now there’s essentially no limit to anyone. That’s really not any more or less confusing than the old version. What’s confusing about this system is confusing for everyone. It took most of us all the beta seasons to start to figure out a decent process for doing it.
We’re not going to agree on the negative effects of making new players go head-to-head against vets in D3 for top of division recruits, and that’s fine, it’s all speculative until a change is made and tested. The idea that there would be no downside, or no effect felt to just putting up a wall… I just don’t think some folks are thinking it through very well. It will have a major effect on late session recruiting at both D2 and D1. Anyway, I will say, short of a total overhaul of the entire scouting system (a budget-less system is what I wanted) probably the best thing they could do for everyone, not just new players, is construct a scouting wizard. The whole idea behind having all the choices and divisions was that seble wanted to maintain options and choices, different viable paths to success, to suit coaching preferences. As you say, it just gets really bulky and consuming fast in practice. If there was a wizard option - say, answer a series of questions or check a series of boxes indicating how much of your budget to spend, what states to FSS at what levels, whether to include a camp and what levels, and then forego so some of the minutiae like detailing miles and positions, etc. Then at the end just indicate *as many as possible to level 4* or *as many as possible to level 3*. For example:
1. Welcome to the Scouting Wizard! Which states would you like to select for FSS? (none or select)
2. Would you like to attend regional camps? (no or select)
3. Would you like to host a private camp? (no or choose details)
4. It looks like you’ll have ($x) remaining. How much would you like to invest in the assistant scout? (Here it can give hints like, you can scout 260 of your 350 identified targets to level 4. Would you like to do this now?)
At any point you can end the wizard and go back to manual.
If they wanted to simplify within the framework of the current system, without messing with the economic balance of the game, this kind of thing is the way to go.
pulldowns / dropdowns had mechanical complexity, but the recruits you could talk to were almost all within your range. the confusion was a result of poor visibility into mechanics, and i believe it could have been addressed as such. once you understood the mechanics, you could operate at a high level, even as a new coach with very little insight into the experience of being a d2 or d3 coach. minimal mentoring was required, the forums were sufficient. i picked up d2/d3 recruiting mechanics on dropdowns/pulldowns in my first season, from the forums - my mentor didn't know about them. by season two i had 1 seed caliber recruiting classes, and this was the dark ages, when almost nobody would talk about dropdowns/pulldowns. i don't see how a coach can walk into today's d3 and come anywhere close, just off the forums.
the reason is, today's d3 recruiting has extreme strategic complexity compared to dropdowns/pulldowns. there is perhaps less mechanical complexity in there which helps some, but the scouting, preferences, two recruiting sessions, and signing preference bring today's d3 to roughly on par, in my view. in today's d3, coaches are waiting around for the opportunity to sign the best d2/d1 recruits that d2/d1 schools won't be after. that is a very tricky understanding to build.
this is, in part, the major wall the old game presented when you got to d1. suddenly it was competitive, and there were recruits available to you that you had no shot at, and you really had to thread the needle. its a huge wall, even for coaches who have d3/d2 titles. it seems to me this wall is half way being pushed forward to d3. there's somewhat less competition, once you learn to stay under d2/d1 range, but that is mostly owing to the ghost town that is today's d3. it seems to me that there is more recruiting competition for a d3 coach today, in ghost town land, than there was when there were 200 coaches in d3 and d2 in the same world. that is absurd. can you imagine what walking into today's d3 would be like with 150 coaches each in d3 and d2? there's just no way! we've gone in the completely wrong direction, as far as d3 goes. there's plenty to learn in d3 without high competition and a steeper strategic learning curve in recruiting.
4/30/2022 11:48 AM (edited)