Uptempo Topic

zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 12/29/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By jenningss on 12/29/2009
Defense uses more energy.

Sometimes, when the uptempo/slowdown affect on tiring is discussed, we need to remember that your own defensive style (man/zone/press) has a bigger affect on your own stamina. Yes, even more more than your tempo on offense.

Developer chat? admin posting in the forum? I'm to lazy to look for it.

There have been 13,528 (or so) tweeks to the engine since then so who knows?

yes indeed, fcp uses more energy than either man or zone for sure - that was not the ?, the ? was can uptempo OFFENSE wear the opponent out effectively, you are seeing 3 top coaches - lostmyth, billyg, and myself not in agreement, which again, just shows there are many different approaches to winning in this game
OR I tend to agree with A here in that while it might not directly make their players tired that it forces a team to play their depth more and that (based on stamina) I can either A) play my top guys more or B) my depth is usually very good so that gives me an edge.
12/29/2009 9:42 AM
oldresorter
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played upt / fcp vs a very bad team sim team at noon that fcp vs me - I won 114-55 or something like that, which is far more than usual in such a game, hard to say - but I would guess the uptempo contributed to exhausting my opponent - just not sure it works vs a real opponent where the outcome is likely to be in single digits

but this thread will cause me to look at it again, I actually coach some pretty talented teams that should be able to pull it off, if indeed it is an advantage
12/29/2009 2:02 PM
a_in_the_b
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Well, Oldresorter. . .do SIm teams essentially use Fatigue settings, or do they end up using a version of target minutes?
12/29/2009 2:48 PM
mullycj
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Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 12/29/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By jenningss on 12/29/2009
Defense uses more energy.

Sometimes, when the uptempo/slowdown affect on tiring is discussed, we need to remember that your own defensive style (man/zone/press) has a bigger affect on your own stamina. Yes, even more more than your tempo on offense.

Developer chat? admin posting in the forum? I'm to lazy to look for it.

There have been 13,528 (or so) tweeks to the engine since then so who knows?

yes indeed, fcp uses more energy than either man or zone for sure - that was not the ?, the ? was can uptempo OFFENSE wear the opponent out effectively, you are seeing 3 top coaches - lostmyth, billyg, and myself not in agreement, which again, just shows there are many different approaches to winning in this game
damn ..I get thrown into the "all others" category again..
12/29/2009 2:49 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/29/2009Well, Oldresorter. . .do SIm teams essentially use Fatigue settings, or do they end up using a version of target minutes?
Fatigue.
12/29/2009 2:49 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 12/29/2009
played upt / fcp vs a very bad team sim team at noon that fcp vs me - I won 114-55 or something like that, which is far more than usual in such a game, hard to say - but I would guess the uptempo contributed to exhausting my opponent - just not sure it works vs a real opponent where the outcome is likely to be in single digits

but this thread will cause me to look at it again, I actually coach some pretty talented teams that should be able to pull it off, if indeed it is an advantage



If I had enough time I would like to track fg% for each 10 minutes in the game, I know that that would be disgregarding a good chunk of information but i think, generally, it would be less the last 5-10 minutes of the game then the rest of it if said team was tired, agreed? Maybe not every game (since there is rng) but overall.
12/29/2009 2:51 PM
a_in_the_b
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Ok,. Just curious.

Now the other factor here is that humans are probably much better at setting up their depth charts to compensate for players with lower stamina. And what fatigue setting does the sim essentially set them at? If it sets them at tired, it might make a difference, for example, than if the computer set it at fairly fresh. . .



12/29/2009 2:52 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/29/2009
Ok,. Just curious.

Now the other factor here is that humans are probably much better at setting up their depth charts to compensate for players with lower stamina. And what fatigue setting does the sim essentially set them at? If it sets them at tired, it might make a difference, for example, than if the computer set it at fairly fresh. .
I do not know what setting it is or if it varies from player to player or not.
12/29/2009 3:01 PM
oldresorter
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Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/29/2009Well, Oldresorter. . .do SIm teams essentially use Fatigue settings, or do they end up using a version of target minutes?
a_ - the reason fatigue was invented was to make sims more competitive, in the old days, when sims ran target, they were not as competitive with human coached teams as they are today. At one point when I was in d3 a couple of years back, I had a streak of over 100 wins vs sims
12/29/2009 3:58 PM
a_in_the_b
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MAin reason I was wondering is beccause it woudl effect hwo tired a sim got. Sims might be using some different sort of settings logic than most humans use.

12/29/2009 4:06 PM
oldresorter
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I think they play GT, if you ever take over a sim coached team, take a look. reason I say GT is because seems sim coached teams play more minutes than a team playing FF would, but they definitely use the same fatigue settings we use
12/29/2009 4:08 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 12/29/2009I think they play GT, if you ever take over a sim coached team, take a look. reason I say GT is because seems sim coached teams play more minutes than a team playing FF would, but they definitely use the same fatigue settings we us
GT is my thought too OR but I have nothing more to back that up then what you already said.
12/29/2009 4:09 PM
jenningss
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Put me in the camp of uptempo ain't what it used to be. Still, I uptempo on almost all my teams (I'm lazy, ya gotta click something to change it). Lately I've been experimenting with using zone. My teams running zone GENERALLY are doing better than I thought they would. I was wondering if the stamina saved playing zone MAYBE was benefitting my uptempo motion offense. Probably not, but just throwing it out there.

edit:Addition: Just for kicks I got hired on at Hawaii and remember goose taking over from metsmax and winning a championship there. They both sort of recommend using zone there since rule #1 in Hawaii is get ALL Hawaaiin players who can play D1. So... zone allows the occasional bad DE rating guy from Hawaii to be recruitable. And that's how I began using zone.
12/29/2009 9:52 PM
oldresorter
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I ran uptempo with a couple of my teams last night - the ones I thought could tolerate it, they all won, couple of them did better than usual, one near 20 pt win on the road vs a ranked team - has renewed my interest in uptempo

12/30/2009 8:15 AM
dalter
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Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 12/29/2009

Ok,. Just curious.

Now the other factor here is that humans are probably much better at setting up their depth charts to compensate for players with lower stamina. And what fatigue setting does the sim essentially set them at? If it sets them at tired, it might make a difference, for example, than if the computer set it at fairly fresh. . .

I believe the computer has the players at getting tired, because that's where they've all been set when I've taken over from a sim before. But I don't know that for a stone-cold fact.

EDIT: OR beat me to it.
12/30/2009 10:44 AM
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