Redshirting - Page 9 - Hoops Dynasty

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Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 12/30/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/30/2009

12/30/2009
Closed the loophole of redshirting a player to avoid fulfilling recruiting promises. Players who were promised minutes or a starting spot will always be angry now if a coach redshirts them. Also, redshirted players will now be included in the pool of players who may complain if they're not getting their promised minutes/starting spot.

Great move!

yeah, only took them what, 2....3 years to do this?

1/1/2010 3:12 AM

emy1013

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Better late than never, I guess..........

1/1/2010 7:13 AM

oldresorter

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Quote: Originally Posted By mccabemi on 12/31/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 12/31/2009

me confused. But if anyone is interested, maybe I will share the 'booster gift to upperclassman' option - which allows the coach to keep 900 level juniors from going EE.

Happy new year everyone!

Is this a joke?

yes it was a joke - sorry

1/1/2010 8:13 AM

coach_billyg

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Quote: Originally posted by mlatsko1 on 12/31/2009It's disappointing to see that such a successful coach cheated his way to many titles.

its disappointing to see that such a successful coach is so closed minded. there is an obvious gray area here, surrounding glitches and loopholes.

when i started the game pulldowns were used by some coaches, and likely all of the most successful ones. a few months later, CS claimed pulldowns only existed at that time because of a glitch, and they closed it. are all the coaches who used pulldowns at that time cheaters? what about those who realized you could still pull players down with excessive phone calls while CS resumed claiming pulldowns did not exist? i missed out on that round, but i absolutely do not feel those coaches cheated me. what about when pulldowns first came back in the regular form... it was not announced, it was not clear if they were an intended part of the game. now it is clear, so does that mean the first movers were innovators, or cheaters?

my point is, its not black and white. and it is certainly a factor if other people know about it, and do it. someone said, just because somebody else cheated, doesn't make it right for you to. well, when enough people do it, it changes the equation.

i felt the redshirt glitch was ok because i heard about it a few times first. i don't know how long people have known, pork said 25 months at least, but it was only several months ago when i first heard of it. by the time i heard it a few times, it was a couple months ago... the guy i tried it on is a soph in rupp (not that it changes the fact of the matter, but the trial was certainly to my disadvantage). if there is a common knowledge way to gain an advantage, and nobody is complaining about it, i am not about to disadvantage myself by ignoring it just because it is presumably not what CS intended. if they fixed this stuff as soon as possible after being reported, it would be different. but a strategy can be outside of CS intentions and be public knowledge, and widely used, for months or years. where do you draw the line? when do you stop holding back? vandydave may hold back on the press forever but im pretty sure the other 99% of us draw a line in the sand somewhere.

1/2/2010 6:44 AM

mlatsko1

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Glitch and ok should not be used in the same sentence.

It's not closed minded, it's reality. You cheated, therefore you are a cheater. Twist it in whatever way makes you feel good about yourself. At the end of the day, you cheated at a college basketball simulation game. Congrats, you're the man.

1/2/2010 9:14 AM

dalter

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Quote: Originally Posted By coach_billyg on 1/02/2010
Quote: Originally posted by mlatsko1 on 12/31/2009 It's disappointing to see that such a successful coach cheated his way to many titles.

its disappointing to see that such a successful coach is so closed minded. there is an obvious gray area here, surrounding glitches and loopholes.

when i started the game pulldowns were used by some coaches, and likely all of the most successful ones. a few months later, CS claimed pulldowns only existed at that time because of a glitch, and they closed it.

Gil, that's not correct. What they said was that pulldowns were supposed to be part of the game, but that they had become easier than WIS intended.

This is something I subsequently talked to TK about and there is absolutely no question that pulldowns were and are meant to be a part of the game.

1/2/2010 10:36 AM

dalter

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Quote: Originally Posted By mlatsko1 on 1/02/2010
Glitch and ok should not be used in the same sentence.

It's not closed minded, it's reality. You cheated, therefore you are a cheater. Twist it in whatever way makes you feel good about yourself. At the end of the day, you cheated at a college basketball simulation game. Congrats, you're the man.

mlat, I continue to be befuddled by your unflinching, hard line stance.

Cheating would be breaking the rules. I'm curious where in the rules it prohibits the RS thing that was used by some coaches?

1/2/2010 10:38 AM

coach_billyg

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This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.

1/3/2010 1:32 AM

coach_billyg

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Quote: Originally posted by mlatsko1 on 1/02/2010Glitch and ok should not be used in the same sentence.

It's not closed minded, it's reality. You cheated, therefore you are a cheater. Twist it in whatever way makes you feel good about yourself. At the end of the day, you cheated at a college basketball simulation game. Congrats, you're the man.

i would be with you, on the you cheated, therefore you are a cheater (continue ranting). except, on the you cheated part.

please step back for just a moment and consider the greater picture. if i had to describe this game in 2 words, it would not be "basketball sim", but "strategy game". the pleasure i derive from the time i put in is primarily from the strategic aspect of the competition. to me, it is not all that different than chess, bridge, risk, etc... if you are a strategist yourself, like me, i hope you can appreciate that i could not enjoy a strategy game, nor take any pride in any success in such a game, if i felt i was cheating. i (possibly naively) consider this to be the case for all of the true competitors who coach in this game. yet, so many of us differ on our opinion of what is over the line and what is not. why? i think it is fairly simple, and quite obvious, that there is a gray area.

now, to dig in the details. the approach you must take in playing a strategy game like this, or virtually any other software based strategy game, is fundamentally different than one like chess, risk, etc. in one key way. in pure strategy games like chess, there is no gray area. any possible move, any possible option, is viable, and is not cheating. if there is an imbalance in the game, you are fully expected to exploit it to the maximum. however, in software strategy games, there are bugs, glitches, unusual strategies, and rarely used strategies. differentiation between members of those groups is not trivial. who is to decide? surly it isn't you, nor me. the best i can come up with is to gauge the community response.

1/3/2010 1:40 AM

mlatsko1

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Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 1/02/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By mlatsko1 on 1/02/2010

Glitch and ok should not be used in the same sentence.

It's not closed minded, it's reality. You cheated, therefore you are a cheater. Twist it in whatever way makes you feel good about yourself. At the end of the day, you cheated at a college basketball simulation game. Congrats, you're the man.

mlat, I continue to be befuddled by your unflinching, hard line stance.

Cheating would be breaking the rules. I'm curious where in the rules it prohibits the RS thing that was used by some coaches?

It's an unintended exploit. Exploit = cheating. If you use the exploit, you are a cheater. I can't make it any more clear than that.

1/3/2010 1:36 PM

mlatsko1

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Quote: Originally Posted By coach_billyg on 1/03/2010
Quote: Originally posted by mlatsko1 on 1/02/2010
Glitch and ok should not be used in the same sentence.

It's not closed minded, it's reality. You cheated, therefore you are a cheater. Twist it in whatever way makes you feel good about yourself. At the end of the day, you cheated at a college basketball simulation game. Congrats, you're the man.

i would be with you, on the you cheated, therefore you are a cheater (continue ranting). except, on the you cheated part.

please step back for just a moment and consider the greater picture. if i had to describe this game in 2 words, it would not be "basketball sim", but "strategy game". the pleasure i derive from the time i put in is primarily from the strategic aspect of the competition. to me, it is not all that different than chess, bridge, risk, etc... if you are a strategist yourself, like me, i hope you can appreciate that i could not enjoy a strategy game, nor take any pride in any success in such a game, if i felt i was cheating. i (possibly naively) consider this to be the case for all of the true competitors who coach in this game. yet, so many of us differ on our opinion of what is over the line and what is not. why? i think it is fairly simple, and quite obvious, that there is a gray area.

now, to dig in the details. the approach you must take in playing a strategy game like this, or virtually any other software based strategy game, is fundamentally different than one like chess, risk, etc. in one key way. in pure strategy games like chess, there is no gray area. any possible move, any possible option, is viable, and is not cheating. if there is an imbalance in the game, you are fully expected to exploit it to the maximum. however, in software strategy games, there are bugs, glitches, unusual strategies, and rarely used strategies. differentiation between members of those groups is not trivial. who is to decide? surly it isn't you, nor me. the best i can come up with is to gauge the community response

There is intended and unintended.

You're probably an avid user of the foot wedge on the golf course too. Some people have lower standards I suppose.

1/3/2010 1:39 PM

dalter

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You're trying to represent your opinion ("exploit = cheating") as fact, when it's anything but. I disagree with your opinion that if you use something unintented in the sim to your advantage, that is equivalent to cheating.

There have been many, many instances in the time that we've been playing HD that there have been unintended things going on in the sim. There were really bad glitches where running halfcourt press with bad/F iq's was really helping teams, and another one where running multiple double teams was actually making areas that WIS meant to be weaker (like rebounding) even stronger.

Were the people that were playing hcp or multiple dt's every game cheating? Not in my opinion.

1/3/2010 1:43 PM

coach_billyg

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1/3/2010 4:43 PM

nbstowman

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Mlatsko, exploit does not equal cheating. How many times have you heard expressions such as "exploit a weakness in a defense" etc.

1/3/2010 5:39 PM

mlatsko1

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Exploit / Cheat are synonymous in the software world. (Simulation, programming, software... see a connection there?)

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Do not confuse the noun and the verb.

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Unintended - Exploit, Intended - variations in the effectiveness of a defensive type. Intended can be over done, but meant to be functional The action that was taking was not meant to be. Therefore, it's an exploit. And as I've covered in the software world, expoit = cheat.

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Footwedge = kicking your ball to improve your position. It's cheating, FYI.

1/3/2010 7:06 PM

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