Posted by seamar_116 on 12/19/2012 5:37:00 PM (view original):
screw it...let's just continue with RL being like a video game. Nothing can be done. Next massacre let's save the faux tears and just be honest..."What'cha gonna do? 2nd Amendment, freedomz, guns don't kill people, people do, Freedom isn't free...

Tell me how you propose keeping guns out of the hands of people that should not have them?

This is the problem through history.  If you have weapons of any kind, eventually some evil person or psychopath (or both) will get hold of them, and hurt other people.  You can't legislate against evil.

There is no easy, short-term, short-attention-span solution that will be a panacea.  No matter what ill-advised, knee-jerk laws are passed, some other evil person or psychopath will get hold of more weapons (whether guns or manure-fueled bombs or ninja throwing stars or anthrax), and the bleating will start back up again.

Some people just plain suck.

Posted by jclarkbaker on 12/19/2012 10:10:00 AM (view original):
Guns are not the problem, and statistics back this up:

More whites own guns than blacks, yet the murder rate for blacks is much higher.

There are more guns in rural areas than in urban areas, yet the murder rate is higher in urban areas (where there are tougher gun laws).

Hand gun ownership doubled in the 20th century, while the murder rate went down.

Regarding the argument that other countries that have banned guns have lower murder rates than the US, GB has had a lower rate for 200 years, guns or no guns.  It was easier to buy a gun in London in the mid 20th century than in NYC, yet the murder rate in NYC was higher.

1954 London: only a dozen armed robberies.  1990's:  over a hundred times more.

Switzerland, Israel, New Zealand, and Finland have higher gun ownership rates than Germany, yet Germany has a higher murder rate than all of them.

People.  Criminals and the mentally ill.  They are the problem.  Taking guns out of the hands of people who are not the problem is not solution.

see: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335848/gun-control-ignorance-thomas-sowell

Good statistics, but you miss the point.

Guns are a part of the problem.

As is a weak mental health system, a prevalent culture of violence, and a whole lot of other factors.

A great misservice is done to the victims of this tragedy by everybody who seeks to make
it into either:
a) a case for sweeping gun retrictions
b) another platform to refuse to consider the ways gun ownership/availabilty could be reformed.

The causations of this horrible event were complex and multiple. 

All the simple minded, one-issue, tub thumpers are of no use whatsoever.

"If one is not part of the solution, one is part of the problem."

Clearly, status quo as it stands right now in the USA is not nearly good enough. 

But I can think of no greater nation on earth that has the potential and
the resources to solve humankind's worst problems.*

But there will need to be give and take on all sides.


(*I'm Canadian, so consider this complement is from a neutral source.)

you are either for more guns or for less guns...one side or the other. Bumper sticker slogans like "guns don't kill people, people kill people" are cute and catchy but at the end of the day you are either for more guns or less guns. We are an extremely violent country so I don't foster any allusions that people will fall in line with the less guns is better theory...I'm just saying that I do.

Posted by swamphawk22 on 12/19/2012 3:35:00 PM (view original):
And I am clearly not talking about you.

And my thoughts go out to you and any anguish this incident may have caused you.

I was as saddened as anyone by the incident. Any tragedy that involves children is doubly sad.

I do not want to upset anyone with a direct or indirect relationship with the people and area of this incident.

that was not clear.

i am a liberal, you indicted me in your original post.

i have been for gun control in the past.  i am for gun control today.

it is not for power.

it is because having ****** up guns is ******* stupid

if people are as irredeemably ****** up as we may all agree they are, then how the flying **** does it make sense for them to have access to ****** up guns?

it ******* doesnt.

its not about power.  its about being a ******* man and putting real life over bullshit ideology marketed by an industry to support its retail sales.

 its about being a ******* man and putting real life over bullshit ideology marketed by an industry to support its retail sales.

That is a really good point.
In addition to ideology, I think there are some people for whom guns
are like drugs--they are hooked and will do/say anything to maintain
the supply.  These people are in the minority of gun owners, I'd bet,
but it is important to be aware of their existence, and the true reasons
for the he misdirection they will create.

Posted by 05nomar05 on 12/19/2012 11:06:00 AM (view original):

Posted by winnetka1 on 12/19/2012 11:00:00 AM (view original):
We have 300 million guns in America and somewhere around 10,000 murders with firearms per year...now if we had zero guns the murder with firearms would obviously be zero...although the relationship may not be linear, I would posit that as we reduce the number of guns( approaching zero) we would also be reducing murder by firearms...so certainly I would like to see a reduction in the amount of firearms

Bingo!

Criminals don't voluntarily turn in guns.

Guns are not going to be eliminated.  Stop wasting our time discussing it.  And measures such as waiting periods, limiting magazine capacity, banning "assault rifles", etc. are completely and utterly useless.  They prevent absolutely nothing.  And now the hysterics are complaining about video games.  Give me a ******* break.

This guy was ******* crazy.  But this nation has decided to mainstream these people.  The ACLU is all over it.  Crazy people and criminals are the major gun killers.  Period.  You keep guns out of their hands, and you greatly reduce the number of gun deaths (numbers that have been steadily declining).

PS:  Bloomberg is a ******* moron.  I have never heard such absolute idiocy in my entire life.  He is proof positive New Yorkers are ******* idiots.  Example:  when asked to comment on Rep. Gohmert's comment that he wished the principal had had a gun, Bloomberg responded:  "There are dumb statements and then there are stupid statements....I don't know what the gun would have done".  Yes, Mayor (who is surrounded by armed guards, mind you), there are dumb and stupid statements.  Because when faced with a gunman, being unarmed is no different than being armed, YOU ******* DUMB ************.

And on an unrelated note, how do you dress up as Iowa?

make yourself flat and full of corn?

Oh and by the way, **** YOU jclarkbaker you ignorant piece of ****!

They always toss out the huge numbers, but in reality most of those are drug and gang related crimes.

I cannot imagine them turning in their guns if we change the laws.

Posted by swamphawk22 on 12/20/2012 2:49:00 AM (view original):
They always toss out the huge numbers, but in reality most of those are drug and gang related crimes.

I cannot imagine them turning in their guns if we change the laws.

this is such ****** up bullshit reasoning.  what, the problems too ******* big?  TOO HARRRRRD?  Too complicated?  nut up.

****.  if people are hungry, should we try to get them food?  you will say, OH NO there's too many hungry people.

grow a ******* pair.

I'm curious, are there drugs and gangs in other countries of the world?  Or just here?  

And if its just here, does that make you want to think about whether we have some serious problems to address? One of which might be too many ******* guns for ****** up people to get access to?

JESUS.

Posted by jclarkbaker on 12/19/2012 11:32:00 PM (view original):
Guns are not going to be eliminated.  Stop wasting our time discussing it.  And measures such as waiting periods, limiting magazine capacity, banning "assault rifles", etc. are completely and utterly useless.  They prevent absolutely nothing.  And now the hysterics are complaining about video games.  Give me a ******* break.

This guy was ******* crazy.  But this nation has decided to mainstream these people.  The ACLU is all over it.  Crazy people and criminals are the major gun killers.  Period.  You keep guns out of their hands, and you greatly reduce the number of gun deaths (numbers that have been steadily declining).

PS:  Bloomberg is a ******* moron.  I have never heard such absolute idiocy in my entire life.  He is proof positive New Yorkers are ******* idiots.  Example:  when asked to comment on Rep. Gohmert's comment that he wished the principal had had a gun, Bloomberg responded:  "There are dumb statements and then there are stupid statements....I don't know what the gun would have done".  Yes, Mayor (who is surrounded by armed guards, mind you), there are dumb and stupid statements.  Because when faced with a gunman, being unarmed is no different than being armed, YOU ******* DUMB ************.

And on an unrelated note, how do you dress up as Iowa?

To be clear, you say two things here:

(1) you'll never keep guns out of people's hands, and
(2) the solution is to keep guns out of people's hands.

**** and ****.  What the **** are you saying?   ****.

Posted by swamphawk22 on 12/20/2012 2:49:00 AM (view original):
They always toss out the huge numbers, but in reality most of those are drug and gang related crimes.

I cannot imagine them turning in their guns if we change the laws.

So those lives are worth less than ordinary, innocent humans?

According to your inhumane logic, we won't have to worry about them turning in guns as they will kill each other off.