Tea Party 4-18-11 Topic

swamphawk22
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Posted by antonsirius on 11/15/2010 12:58:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I can't imagine why anyone would think the Christians are actively campaigning to take over the education system...

Sure, it's Louisiana, and they're just generally crazy about everything, but it's still something that can be used as a blueprint in other states.
And as everyone always says As Baton Rouge goes, so goes the nation.
11/15/2010 3:46 PM
swamphawk22
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Posted by antonsirius on 11/15/2010 12:58:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I can't imagine why anyone would think the Christians are actively campaigning to take over the education system...

Sure, it's Louisiana, and they're just generally crazy about everything, but it's still something that can be used as a blueprint in other states.
And of course none of this mattered, the state review board voted 8-4 to allow the text books over objections.

So you were just furious that Christians would bring up anything that bothered them?
11/15/2010 3:57 PM
tpob18
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Posted by rlahann on 11/15/2010 12:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by antonsirius on 11/13/2010 12:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tpob18 on 11/13/2010 11:45:00 AM (view original):
Very interesting stuff Crilman. Religion and law are intertwined. Laws should not be made based on religion but we also cannot deny our history and heritage and ignore the impact of religion on our culture. If the SC has Mo and Moses why can't an Alabama court room display the 10 commandements.

The secular wackos are just as crazy as the religious freaks. Our schools ignore religion and therefore are failing to properly educate. Can anyone say that soldier in Afghanistan or Iraq would not have some benefit of learning a basic understanding of Islam?
1) Displaying the 10 Commandments in an Alabama court was an attempt to make a religious statement, and had nothing to do with the law.
2) It's not the 'secular wackos' who are preventing a history of different religions from being taught in classrooms. It's the Christianists who want their religion, and only their religion, to be taught who are the problem.
False...it's both.  Well, kind of.  The right is blocking a religious education curriculum because they only want Christianity taught--the left is blocking a religious ed curriculum because they're afraid it'll be implemented as Christian indoctrination in a lot of districts...which, true.  So it's kind of this weird situation where both sides agree to not have it...which is why there's no major effort to get it done.  

But I'm with Tpob--it's an absolute failure of the educational system to not have it included.  HOWEVER, everything I've read suggests that the armed forces are actually doing a pretty good job at getting soldiers up to speed on Islam before they hit the ground in Afghanistan/Iraq.
The soldier example is just one example. It also would benefit the kid who grows up working with a person of a different faith. We should all be taught about the strange radical religious beliefs of people in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and Louisiana.

Truthfully public schools should have religion history classes as history electives and they could even charge tuition for religion classes that focus on a particular faith. Ignoring that religion exist is the worst choice of all.
11/15/2010 4:07 PM
swamphawk22
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I am pretty sure that most high schools have a world religion elective. I took that class in high school.

There are entire departments in Colleges about that subject.

The problem is not that Americans dont understand Muslims. The problem is many Muslims dont understand Americans and some actually hate us.
11/15/2010 4:09 PM
swamphawk22
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We have not had a major global war in over 60 years. I think we are trying hard.

And is it misunderstanding? Do you really believe that if everyone understood the beliefs and practices of other religions they would stop fighting?
11/15/2010 4:59 PM
rlahann
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Posted by tpob18 on 11/15/2010 4:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by rlahann on 11/15/2010 12:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by antonsirius on 11/13/2010 12:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tpob18 on 11/13/2010 11:45:00 AM (view original):
Very interesting stuff Crilman. Religion and law are intertwined. Laws should not be made based on religion but we also cannot deny our history and heritage and ignore the impact of religion on our culture. If the SC has Mo and Moses why can't an Alabama court room display the 10 commandements.

The secular wackos are just as crazy as the religious freaks. Our schools ignore religion and therefore are failing to properly educate. Can anyone say that soldier in Afghanistan or Iraq would not have some benefit of learning a basic understanding of Islam?
1) Displaying the 10 Commandments in an Alabama court was an attempt to make a religious statement, and had nothing to do with the law.
2) It's not the 'secular wackos' who are preventing a history of different religions from being taught in classrooms. It's the Christianists who want their religion, and only their religion, to be taught who are the problem.
False...it's both.  Well, kind of.  The right is blocking a religious education curriculum because they only want Christianity taught--the left is blocking a religious ed curriculum because they're afraid it'll be implemented as Christian indoctrination in a lot of districts...which, true.  So it's kind of this weird situation where both sides agree to not have it...which is why there's no major effort to get it done.  

But I'm with Tpob--it's an absolute failure of the educational system to not have it included.  HOWEVER, everything I've read suggests that the armed forces are actually doing a pretty good job at getting soldiers up to speed on Islam before they hit the ground in Afghanistan/Iraq.
The soldier example is just one example. It also would benefit the kid who grows up working with a person of a different faith. We should all be taught about the strange radical religious beliefs of people in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and Louisiana.

Truthfully public schools should have religion history classes as history electives and they could even charge tuition for religion classes that focus on a particular faith. Ignoring that religion exist is the worst choice of all.
That was just weird phrasing on my part--I totally agree...it should be mandatory.  It is in every other Western nation that I know of.
11/15/2010 6:41 PM
rlahann
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 11/15/2010 4:09:00 PM (view original):
I am pretty sure that most high schools have a world religion elective. I took that class in high school.

There are entire departments in Colleges about that subject.

The problem is not that Americans dont understand Muslims. The problem is many Muslims dont understand Americans and some actually hate us.
STFU, Swamp--you're just making stuff up.  Most high schools do NOT have that elective--and even if they did (and the number is probably well under 20% that do), our point is that it should be mandatory.
11/15/2010 6:42 PM
antonsirius
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Too bad not enough people that need to read this ***-whooping from David Frum will actually do so, since it's in the evil New York Times and all.
11/15/2010 7:25 PM
swamphawk22
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Posted by antonsirius on 11/15/2010 7:25:00 PM (view original):
Too bad not enough people that need to read this ***-whooping from David Frum will actually do so, since it's in the evil New York Times and all.
Great article. Of course we should use caution in what we do.

The single fact remains that the Government of the last 50 years has exercised no moderation in spending. It has raised spending over and over again. The Tea Party wants someone to stand up and say we need to at least try to reduce the role government plays in our daily lives.

Many Republicans, even Tea Party Pubs, support simple economic support. What we oppose is giant agenda driven economy busters like Obama's stimulus. For Review he spent about as much as the entire Iraq war and got almost nothing.

We are not the position of extreme.
11/15/2010 8:03 PM
swamphawk22
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Posted by rlahann on 11/15/2010 6:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 11/15/2010 4:09:00 PM (view original):
I am pretty sure that most high schools have a world religion elective. I took that class in high school.

There are entire departments in Colleges about that subject.

The problem is not that Americans dont understand Muslims. The problem is many Muslims dont understand Americans and some actually hate us.
STFU, Swamp--you're just making stuff up.  Most high schools do NOT have that elective--and even if they did (and the number is probably well under 20% that do), our point is that it should be mandatory.
Making stuff up?

http://www.csee.org/events

This is an orginization that helps High School teachers set up world religion studies.

I am not saying that proves me right, but I did take a world religion class in high school.

Can you prove you are not making things up?

And finally do you really think that understanding the story behind Passover and the meaning of Ramadan is going to lower tensions? Really?

I think the problem is what they think of us, not what we think of them!

11/15/2010 8:23 PM
rlahann
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 11/15/2010 8:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by rlahann on 11/15/2010 6:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 11/15/2010 4:09:00 PM (view original):
I am pretty sure that most high schools have a world religion elective. I took that class in high school.

There are entire departments in Colleges about that subject.

The problem is not that Americans dont understand Muslims. The problem is many Muslims dont understand Americans and some actually hate us.
STFU, Swamp--you're just making stuff up.  Most high schools do NOT have that elective--and even if they did (and the number is probably well under 20% that do), our point is that it should be mandatory.
Making stuff up?

http://www.csee.org/events

This is an orginization that helps High School teachers set up world religion studies.

I am not saying that proves me right, but I did take a world religion class in high school.

Can you prove you are not making things up?

And finally do you really think that understanding the story behind Passover and the meaning of Ramadan is going to lower tensions? Really?

I think the problem is what they think of us, not what we think of them!

I'm not dealing with the second half---I never said anything like that.

As for the first, you just can't get out of your own way when you do "research"--do you realize that EVERY single school on that website is private or parochial?  It's like you were trying to make my point.

Can I prove that I'm not making it up?  No, except that I've got a lot of little letters after my name, all in education, and it's part of my job to travel around to schools and study teachers..would be nice if you'd just take me at my word...
11/15/2010 10:27 PM
swamphawk22
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I want to take you at your word. I have 2 close friends who have Children High school age.

First one is in Saline Michigan
460 World Religions: 1 Trimester
Prerequisite: Grades 10-12 This elective course is a comparative study of religions in the world today, with a special focus on the following five: Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam and Judaism. Students will compare and contrast religious beliefs from numerous angles including history, geography, culture, scripture and practice. Through our study, we will discuss what “religion” means for individuals and societies today, as well as research how beliefs and practices have evolved over time. The preeminent goal of the course is that students will gain a greater understanding and respect for the similarities and differences of spiritual beliefs among fellow human beings.

Second one Attends in the City of Ferndale.

The Center for Advanced Studies and the Arts (CASA) is an exciting program that offers
challenging classes to students from Berkley, Clawson, Ferndale, Madison Heights, Lamphere
and Oak Park high schools......Comparative Religions I

So I know 2 kids and they both have access to a Religion class just like I did.

Again this doesnt really prove anything, but I think if I said something and the 2 examples that you looked up said the other thing you would call me on it.
11/15/2010 11:55 PM
swamphawk22
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As for the 2nd half, why didnt you respond to it? I wanted you to explain what you think the outcome of mandatory religious training would be.

You may not have said the exact words, but you clearly implied that part of the problem was a lack of understanding.

Are you saying just learning this and seeing them in a positive light would make relations easier to acheive?

If not what is your actual goal in promoting mandatory religious education?
11/15/2010 11:58 PM
swamphawk22
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Which branch of Christianity?

11/16/2010 5:53 PM
swamphawk22
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Bumping this to see if I can get Rlahann to respond.
11/16/2010 7:45 PM
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