Posted by whitey34 on 9/20/2016 2:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by possumfiend on 9/20/2016 2:30:00 PM (view original):
You also realize that the team that is "ahead" isn't guaranteed to get the recruit, right?

In order to have a shot at any recruit you only need be listed as high. The leading team will always have the best chance. If you're both listed as "VH" there is no way to tell who is actually ahead, but you both have a chance.

That's what they said. If I'm very high and another is high and gets the recruit, I'll jump ship like many others. I'm not paying for a game that pulls bs like that. Now if we are all very high on same level then fine.

Well. it is going to happen. Very high sometimes loses to high. If that is a problem for you, then quit now. It is game design. You don't have to like it .. but it does and will happen.

Posted by whitey34 on 9/20/2016 4:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 9/20/2016 4:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by whitey34 on 9/20/2016 2:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by possumfiend on 9/20/2016 2:30:00 PM (view original):
You also realize that the team that is "ahead" isn't guaranteed to get the recruit, right?

In order to have a shot at any recruit you only need be listed as high. The leading team will always have the best chance. If you're both listed as "VH" there is no way to tell who is actually ahead, but you both have a chance.

That's what they said. If I'm very high and another is high and gets the recruit, I'll jump ship like many others. I'm not paying for a game that pulls bs like that. Now if we are all very high on same level then fine.

Well. it is going to happen. Very high sometimes loses to high. If that is a problem for you, then quit now. It is game design. You don't have to like it .. but it does and will happen.

Enjoy playing with 20 people then. There has already been a mass exodus and many more will follow. Oh but wait what does it matter to you? You take over a team like Al blacks, win with his team, then leave...

Couldn't agree less. It's not like 6,631 wins and .648 win percentage are good numbers at all! A team at high has, at most, a 20% chance to win.

Posted by cubcub113 on 9/20/2016 5:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by whitey34 on 9/20/2016 4:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 9/20/2016 4:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by whitey34 on 9/20/2016 2:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by possumfiend on 9/20/2016 2:30:00 PM (view original):
You also realize that the team that is "ahead" isn't guaranteed to get the recruit, right?

In order to have a shot at any recruit you only need be listed as high. The leading team will always have the best chance. If you're both listed as "VH" there is no way to tell who is actually ahead, but you both have a chance.

That's what they said. If I'm very high and another is high and gets the recruit, I'll jump ship like many others. I'm not paying for a game that pulls bs like that. Now if we are all very high on same level then fine.

Well. it is going to happen. Very high sometimes loses to high. If that is a problem for you, then quit now. It is game design. You don't have to like it .. but it does and will happen.

Enjoy playing with 20 people then. There has already been a mass exodus and many more will follow. Oh but wait what does it matter to you? You take over a team like Al blacks, win with his team, then leave...

Couldn't agree less. It's not like 6,631 wins and .648 win percentage are good numbers at all! A team at high has, at most, a 20% chance to win.

.648 isn't that great. 346 seasons and only championship came from taking over Als team not impressive.

Posted by kcsundevil on 9/20/2016 3:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by whitey34 on 9/20/2016 2:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by possumfiend on 9/20/2016 2:30:00 PM (view original):
You also realize that the team that is "ahead" isn't guaranteed to get the recruit, right?

In order to have a shot at any recruit you only need be listed as high. The leading team will always have the best chance. If you're both listed as "VH" there is no way to tell who is actually ahead, but you both have a chance.

That's what they said. If I'm very high and another is high and gets the recruit, I'll jump ship like many others. I'm not paying for a game that pulls bs like that. Now if we are all very high on same level then fine.

I brought this up yesterday and was outvoted. But I agree with you this is stupid.

What I don't get about your argument is that yesterday you said you were okay with the random element being used between two closely contested teams but you object to a high team beating a VH team. My question is how can you be okay with the first part and against the second if you don't know the values of those identifying labels?

If school "A" has x points of effort and is listed as "High" and school "B" has y points of effort but is listed as "VH" don't you really need to know the value of x relative to y to decide if it makes sense?

Then, even if I know the values don't I need to know how they were calculated? And if I know all that, is there some consensus on what constitutes a "close" battle? And isn't that largely determined by how the values of effort are calculated in the first place?

Words mean things.

It's no more complicated than that.

Words are meaningless if they aren't defined.

If you think "very high" and "high" mean the same thing, we can't have a rational conversation.

I don't. I also don't necessarily disagree with your point, I'm suggesting those terms are not defined within the scope of the game, neither you nor I know what they mean relative to effort. If it turned out that high meant one school had 98% of the effort of another team and the difference between those 2% points of effort was 10 AP points would you suggest that wasn't a close battle?

Even that is relative though.

If I'm VH on one school and H on another, and I only get to choose between the two schools once in my lifetime, which school will I as a rational person select?

If I'm VH/VH or H/H, sure, flip a coin, or incorporate probabilities. That is 100% reasonable. But if you're going to differentiate between interest levels, the terminology has to mean something.

I agree with both of you and what you're saying. They're both logical. I think it boils down to preference in my opinion.

Here's an example-
There are 5 teams recruiting a player. All have put in a varying amount of effort and accumulated interest 'points'. Let's say the breakdown is this-

Team A- 1000
Team B- 950
Team C- 900
Team D- 300
Team E- 100

So I think it's obvious that D and E are pretty low interest. But A,B,C are pretty close. So what would we prefer to show up? Should all 3 teams be listed as Very High? Or should just A and B listed as Very High while C is High? You could go either way based upon how close they are I'd think. However, if you're team C and you're listed as High, you know that you are behind the other two teams and that information is helpful to you. You can either now decide to go put more effort in or back off. If team C is listed as VH then you think you're dead even with the others and get a false interpretation of where you stand.

I think maybe kc that you're thinking of the interest levels as too literal. Yes, they should mean something, I definitely agree. And in the literal sense, if this player was a real person then he WOULD be VERY interested in Team C. Of course he would. He would have visited the campus, had coaches in his home, had Pitino buy him a lady friend, etc etc. The whole shebang. However, for the purposes of the game and how we all play it, having more detail on where you stand in a battle could be more helpful than being ambiguous where the range of Very High interest is really huge.

Edit- guess I really didn't make my point... The point being, in my opinion, that in a scenario like the above, if the recruit decides to go with Team C, it isn't crazy. There should be a low chance of this happening of course and I agree with that. So we can either have more information on where we stand in a battle by making the Very High and High conditions closely separated and then we don't get mad or we can have less information and get a little upset when he chooses a team that is 'only' High interest.

Posted by Benis on 9/20/2016 6:18:00 PM (view original):
I agree with both of you and what you're saying. They're both logical. I think it boils down to preference in my opinion.

Here's an example-
There are 5 teams recruiting a player. All have put in a varying amount of effort and accumulated interest 'points'. Let's say the breakdown is this-

Team A- 1000
Team B- 950
Team C- 900
Team D- 300
Team E- 100

So I think it's obvious that D and E are pretty low interest. But A,B,C are pretty close. So what would we prefer to show up? Should all 3 teams be listed as Very High? Or should just A and B listed as Very High while C is High? You could go either way based upon how close they are I'd think. However, if you're team C and you're listed as High, you know that you are behind the other two teams and that information is helpful to you. You can either now decide to go put more effort in or back off. If team C is listed as VH then you think you're dead even with the others and get a false interpretation of where you stand.

I think maybe kc that you're thinking of the interest levels as too literal. Yes, they should mean something, I definitely agree. And in the literal sense, if this player was a real person then he WOULD be VERY interested in Team C. Of course he would. He would have visited the campus, had coaches in his home, had Pitino buy him a lady friend, etc etc. The whole shebang. However, for the purposes of the game and how we all play it, having more detail on where you stand in a battle could be more helpful than being ambiguous where the range of Very High interest is really huge.

Edit- guess I really didn't make my point... The point being, in my opinion, that in a scenario like the above, if the recruit decides to go with Team C, it isn't crazy. There should be a low chance of this happening of course and I agree with that. So we can either have more information on where we stand in a battle by making the Very High and High conditions closely separated and then we don't get mad or we can have less information and get a little upset when he chooses a team that is 'only' High interest.

I'm back to "words mean things."

Make the scenario and justification as complicated as you want. In the end I propose that in the end, most people expect words to mean what they say.

I'm not trying to be dismissive, it just is not a complicated issue.

Posted by kcsundevil on 9/20/2016 5:25:00 PM (view original):
Words mean things.

It's no more complicated than that.

Ok, words mean things... So what does "high interest" mean? I'm not going to that school? If you put all the schools that have some shot at signing the kid into one category, and call it "very high", you have less info, not more. Is that what you want?

In the end, if you can accept that recruiting is now a question of probability, and not determined by who "won" the effort credit bidding game, you'll get used to winning some and losing some, and go about your day. If you can't tolerate it, that is what it is.

Well that's what I mean, it's a preference. You'd prefer to have more teams listed as very high because they are indeed very high on the recruit (or more accurately the recruit is very interested in the school). While others are fine with the VH vs H distinction because it gives more information.

We don't even know what that range is for teams to be considered VH or H. Seble never told us. So it could be a 5% difference, 15% difference, 20%, we don't know. That's what I think possum is saying.

If more information results in false information, I'd rather have less.

You guys and seble disagree with me. That's fine. I know I'm not winning this one, but this issue is fun to kick around because it's a good illustration of the absurdities built into 3.0.