Posted by metsmax on 12/16/2016 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Mike - some of what you say is amusing. Some is just plain seeking to argue. You are being offensive when you call me a liar.

I complained about scouting when the system was described.

I complained about scouting during the beta

I said that it was a click fest. I said that it would take way to much time and effort. I said that it was too much work for a game.

Early in the beta, it had filters that were awful. they were improved. Scouting still takes too long for me

There are other features of 3.0 that I think need improvement, but as soon as 3.0 was described, I started cutting back on teams - dropping first one and then another

You are wrong and you are being offensive. You have no business calling me or anyone a liar when we speak about our reasons for our actions.

Apologize.

I have not called you a liar. And, since you didn't insist that scouting is the lone reason why you cut back from 6 team to 1, I have no intention of calling you a liar. I fully accept that you don't like scouting. I fully accept that it IS more time-consuming. But it is not the lone reason you dropped 5 teams. Therefore, I have no reason to apologize.

Mike, I am calling you a liar.

Posted by metsmax on 12/16/2016 2:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 2:11:00 PM (view original):
Fair enough. You put a number on it while mexmat did not. Over the course of 25 days, 30-40 minutes does not seem overly time-consuming. If one really doesn't have that much free time a month, silly internet games are probably not for them. Even with 6 teams, we're talking about an hour a week using the numbers you provided.

FWIW, I'm not accusing him of lying. That seems rough even from me. I accused him of misrepresenting why he went from 6 teams to 1. It wasn't entirely because of scouting. If he wants to insist it was, I might cross over from "misrepresenting" to "lying".

And, once again, I don't consider myself "trolling" about 95% of the time. I offer a dissenting view to those who completely hate what 3.0 did to "their" game. I'd say "If that's perceived as trolling, I'm sorry" but we know that's a lie. I'm not sorry even a tiny bit. The game is what it is. Play it, don't play it. But discouraging others with negativity seems like sour grapes.

"you put a number on it while mexmat did not"

do you actually read the posts you quote?

I said in a post that you quoted and replied to that I was able to scout fully in 2.0 in apx 30 minutes while it takes me a few hours in 3.0. I went on to mention some caveats

Mike- why are you lying on these forums?

Is "a few hours" a number? Is "I'll do is soon" a time frame?

Now who's calling who a liar?

However, my skin is not thin. No apology necessary. Call me what you want. My feelings won't get hurt.

Posted by metsmax on 12/16/2016 2:36:00 PM (view original):
Mike, I am calling you a liar.

Should I cry myself to sleep because someone on the internet called me a liar? Here's an apology for you: Sorry but I'm not built that way. It's the internet. Your opinion of me is less important than you could possibly imagine.

Any other names you want to call me in your tool box of internet name calling? Feel free to use them.

Since you don't seem to be the brightest bulb in the box, here's an example of how vague responses like "a few hours" are really meaningless:

"I won a few games in my first season in 10 years." Well, I did. It was actually 7. But a few could have been 3 or 9. If I were falsely modest, it could be 22. However, my statement can be verified. We know I won 7 because it's right there for all to see. "A few hours" is so vague that it certainly doesn't qualify as a number.

To be clear to noobs - for whom Mike worries - I dropped from multiple teams to one team because of the increased time burden I expected and experienced in the game as a result of the new scouting and split recruiting. As a very experienced player, I think scouting takes longer than I personally want to spend for a large number of teams. You should make up your own minds.

And yes Mike, you are pretending to know what motivates someone else and engaging in lies and sophistry.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 2:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by johnsensing on 12/16/2016 2:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 2:11:00 PM (view original):
Fair enough. You put a number on it while mexmat did not. Over the course of 25 days, 30-40 minutes does not seem overly time-consuming. If one really doesn't have that much free time a month, silly internet games are probably not for them. Even with 6 teams, we're talking about an hour a week using the numbers you provided.

FWIW, I'm not accusing him of lying. That seems rough even from me. I accused him of misrepresenting why he went from 6 teams to 1. It wasn't entirely because of scouting. If he wants to insist it was, I might cross over from "misrepresenting" to "lying".

And, once again, I don't consider myself "trolling" about 95% of the time. I offer a dissenting view to those who completely hate what 3.0 did to "their" game. I'd say "If that's perceived as trolling, I'm sorry" but we know that's a lie. I'm not sorry even a tiny bit. The game is what it is. Play it, don't play it. But discouraging others with negativity seems like sour grapes.

Come on. Your new position of "I'm not accusing him of lying, I'm just accusing him of misrepresenting" is just a semantic game. You accused metsmax of being dishonest with no evidence whatsoever, and no frame of reference, since you didn't even play 2.0. You have no idea why he dropped his teams. Again, if your goal is -- as you seem to want it to be -- to make the forums better/friendlier/easier for newbies, throwing out wild accusations is an odd way to go about it.

I think there's a difference. Somehow this became a discussion on scouting. At that point he said "I went from 6 to 1 because scouting is so time-consuming." Do YOU think that's the only reason? Admittedly, I do not. That doesn't mean he's lying. Scouting may have been a breaking point but it is NOT the only reason he finds 3.0 distasteful. And it's NOT the only reason he went from 6 to 1. But, in this thread, that's what's being represented.

My goal is not to make the HD forum better/friendler/easier for n00bs. I don't really have a goal. But I don't want n00bs to be turned away due to misinformation on the game or misrepresentation of the game.

Still playing the semantic games, I see -- there is not a difference between saying someone's lying and saying someone's misrepresenting -- either way, you're accusing someone of dishonesty. Since you asked my opinion, I think that I've played in several leagues with metsmax, I've never known him to lie (or misrepresent, if you like that better), and so if he says he cut down from 6 to 1 because of the time it takes to scout, I believe him. I certainly have no reason to think he's "misrepresenting" -- not sure why you think you do, but I do think an apology is warranted, and your refusal to do so isn't exactly saying great things about your character.

30 minutes vs a few hours is actually in my view the best way to present the data

the 30 minutes under 2.0 is based on a very large sample of experience

as I noted, the experience (mine and generally) under 3.0 is more limited. Attempting to be precise based on a small sample would be a mistake - how someone focused on data only would miss the point.

The point and the information - my experience - was clear. But either way, Mike should not pretend to know what motivates me. Sophistry.

Mike, and mets

Both you guys have wasted too much time on this argument.

Just my opinion, but both you guys have plenty of time to scout, you both could've recruited a couple of National Championship teams by now.

To be clear n00bs, because misinformation is a bad thing, scouting isn't that bad. I have 407 recruits in Knight using poiuyt as my username. I took me roughly 20 minutes to find them and scout the ones I wanted to the appropriate level. I have just under $3700 left in scouting for two openings. If things go all wrong, it might take me another 20 minutes but, right now, I have around , 40 scouted at least to level 2, 20 of those scouted at level 3 and 5 at level 4.

I can't imagine, unless one frets over every player before scouting to the next level, that a full scouting session in one world could take over 1 hour. There are so many parameters you can use to break players down before taking the next step, that's it's seemingly impossible to have a list so huge that it's unmanageable. And a lot of it's color-coded so that cuts down another step.

excellent job at staying on topic, guys

Posted by johnsensing on 12/16/2016 2:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 2:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by johnsensing on 12/16/2016 2:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 2:11:00 PM (view original):
Fair enough. You put a number on it while mexmat did not. Over the course of 25 days, 30-40 minutes does not seem overly time-consuming. If one really doesn't have that much free time a month, silly internet games are probably not for them. Even with 6 teams, we're talking about an hour a week using the numbers you provided.

FWIW, I'm not accusing him of lying. That seems rough even from me. I accused him of misrepresenting why he went from 6 teams to 1. It wasn't entirely because of scouting. If he wants to insist it was, I might cross over from "misrepresenting" to "lying".

And, once again, I don't consider myself "trolling" about 95% of the time. I offer a dissenting view to those who completely hate what 3.0 did to "their" game. I'd say "If that's perceived as trolling, I'm sorry" but we know that's a lie. I'm not sorry even a tiny bit. The game is what it is. Play it, don't play it. But discouraging others with negativity seems like sour grapes.

Come on. Your new position of "I'm not accusing him of lying, I'm just accusing him of misrepresenting" is just a semantic game. You accused metsmax of being dishonest with no evidence whatsoever, and no frame of reference, since you didn't even play 2.0. You have no idea why he dropped his teams. Again, if your goal is -- as you seem to want it to be -- to make the forums better/friendlier/easier for newbies, throwing out wild accusations is an odd way to go about it.

I think there's a difference. Somehow this became a discussion on scouting. At that point he said "I went from 6 to 1 because scouting is so time-consuming." Do YOU think that's the only reason? Admittedly, I do not. That doesn't mean he's lying. Scouting may have been a breaking point but it is NOT the only reason he finds 3.0 distasteful. And it's NOT the only reason he went from 6 to 1. But, in this thread, that's what's being represented.

My goal is not to make the HD forum better/friendler/easier for n00bs. I don't really have a goal. But I don't want n00bs to be turned away due to misinformation on the game or misrepresentation of the game.

Still playing the semantic games, I see -- there is not a difference between saying someone's lying and saying someone's misrepresenting -- either way, you're accusing someone of dishonesty. Since you asked my opinion, I think that I've played in several leagues with metsmax, I've never known him to lie (or misrepresent, if you like that better), and so if he says he cut down from 6 to 1 because of the time it takes to scout, I believe him. I certainly have no reason to think he's "misrepresenting" -- not sure why you think you do, but I do think an apology is warranted, and your refusal to do so isn't exactly saying great things about your character.

Sadly, our definitions of "lying" and "misrepresenting" are not the same. Quickly, as skinndog noted that we've wasted a lot of time, here's an example.

I wear a police uniform. People think I'm a cop. I've likely misrepresented myself as one.
I yell "STOP!!! OR I'LL SHOOT!!!!" in the middle of a crowd. I've lied about being a cop.
Maybe you don't see the difference. I do.

Your request for an apology is noted. Your opinion of my character is noted. But, again, internet. Not overly concerned with your opinion of me nor your belief that I should apologize. Have a great day.

Posted by bathtubhippo on 12/16/2016 2:59:00 PM (view original):
excellent job at staying on topic, guys

That never happens by page 3.

Posted by metsmax on 12/16/2016 2:55:00 PM (view original):
30 minutes vs a few hours is actually in my view the best way to present the data

the 30 minutes under 2.0 is based on a very large sample of experience

as I noted, the experience (mine and generally) under 3.0 is more limited. Attempting to be precise based on a small sample would be a mistake - how someone focused on data only would miss the point.

The point and the information - my experience - was clear. But either way, Mike should not pretend to know what motivates me. Sophistry.

Either way "a few hours" isn't a number. It's a vague space of time.

one remedy for dead time is to get a second team on a different cycle.