Posted by zorzii on 1/6/2017 9:46:00 AM (view original):
If I D1 offers time, I think you are done. If not, your evaluation is about right, 4 to 5 hvs. As soon as 15 minutes are offered, from D (rebuilding an getting the program forward, human owned), the recruit is gone to D1. If he offers a redshirt, then you got it easier a lot easier, no need to hvs.

Yeah but we need some1 from div 1 to validate this O WAIT.....

I know a coach who lost a D1 top 200 recruit to a D3 when the D1 coach had 5 homes visits, minutes and a start on him (all offered at the beginning of the 2nd recruiting session).

Posted by rsvphr on 1/6/2017 10:06:00 AM (view original):
I know a coach who lost a D1 top 200 recruit to a D3 when the D1 coach had 5 homes visits, minutes and a start on him (all offered at the beginning of the 2nd recruiting session).

Sounds like a BACKUP OPTION, D3 must of been at the start of the 1st cycle and went all in. As a matter of fact we get limited sources in div 3.
So I know for a FACT he went "all in".

I think the main way to win as a D2 is just to have the clock run out before the D1 catches up to you......that is, he signs in the first or second cycle of the second session. very common. that said, if he doesn't sign right away and the D1 goes big, I've only seen a small sample of times the D2 wins. i think you'd have to put as much as possible in to have a chance to win in that case.

For my two cents worth, if you are a D2 guy going after a D1 recruit, I say do not go all in for one unless he has a sign early preference (any signing preference towards part 1 recruiting, but NOT whenever). If you have him turned as high or very high at the start of part two, nine out of ten times he signs with you at the 5 pm first cycle. They will not give the D1 schools much time. However if he is a LATE signing preference, you really risk flushing your money away. Word to the wise, from a Coach that has both lost and then won using that technique.
D2 and D3 recruiting much more enjoyable, but D1 still is the most competitive (substitute stressful or gut retching here) recruiting division.

As far as prestige, it is thought that each letter grade at D1 is worth about 50 - 60% of effort, while at D2 and D3 it is worth about 10% of effort. So looking at it from the D1 coach's perspective who is jumping in late...

If an A+ D2 team has 1000 APs, 10 HVs and a CV, the equivalent for a D+ D1 team should be about 600 - 700 APs (1000/1.6), 6 HVs (10/1.6), and the CV.

For a C+ D1 team it should be about 400 - 500 APs (1000/2.2) and 4 - 5 HVs (10/2.2) and the CV

For a B+ D1 team it should be about 300 - 400 APs (1000/2.8) and 3 - 4 HVs (10/2.8) and the CV

For an A+ D1 team it should be about 250 - 300 APs (1000/3.4) and about 3 HVs and the CV. *Note there is no cap on A+ prestige so it could be considerably less if the team is an A++++ compared to just barely and A+

This is assuming preferences are equal, but preferences could change the divisor/multiplier. I have no data as to what these multipliers are. Also, HVs can be used to catch up with APs if the D1 team is starting late, but I don't know how many APs = 1 HV.

One of the things I like about 3.0 is that what used to be a pretty straight forward mathematical equation now has many more variables. In 2.0 many coaches knew going into a battle if they would win or lose (and hence the very few battles between top coaches for top recruits). In 3.0 there are so many more variables that getting to that level of certainty is going to be difficult.

Posted by piman314 on 1/6/2017 10:45:00 AM (view original):
As far as prestige, it is thought that each letter grade at D1 is worth about 50 - 60% of effort, while at D2 and D3 it is worth about 10% of effort. So looking at it from the D1 coach's perspective who is jumping in late...

If an A+ D2 team has 1000 APs, 10 HVs and a CV, the equivalent for a D+ D1 team should be about 600 - 700 APs (1000/1.6), 6 HVs (10/1.6), and the CV.

For a C+ D1 team it should be about 400 - 500 APs (1000/2.2) and 4 - 5 HVs (10/2.2) and the CV

For a B+ D1 team it should be about 300 - 400 APs (1000/2.8) and 3 - 4 HVs (10/2.8) and the CV

For an A+ D1 team it should be about 250 - 300 APs (1000/3.4) and about 3 HVs and the CV. *Note there is no cap on A+ prestige so it could be considerably less if the team is an A++++ compared to just barely and A+

This is assuming preferences are equal, but preferences could change the divisor/multiplier. I have no data as to what these multipliers are. Also, HVs can be used to catch up with APs if the D1 team is starting late, but I don't know how many APs = 1 HV.

One of the things I like about 3.0 is that what used to be a pretty straight forward mathematical equation now has many more variables. In 2.0 many coaches knew going into a battle if they would win or lose (and hence the very few battles between top coaches for top recruits). In 3.0 there are so many more variables that getting to that level of certainty is going to be difficult.

I still back away from a top div 1 program or higher perstige div 1 program.

"Exclude preferences from this conversation....."

INCLUDING preferences would be the only way to make the conversation relevant.

Posted by piman314 on 1/6/2017 10:45:00 AM (view original):
As far as prestige, it is thought that each letter grade at D1 is worth about 50 - 60% of effort, while at D2 and D3 it is worth about 10% of effort. So looking at it from the D1 coach's perspective who is jumping in late...

If an A+ D2 team has 1000 APs, 10 HVs and a CV, the equivalent for a D+ D1 team should be about 600 - 700 APs (1000/1.6), 6 HVs (10/1.6), and the CV.

For a C+ D1 team it should be about 400 - 500 APs (1000/2.2) and 4 - 5 HVs (10/2.2) and the CV

For a B+ D1 team it should be about 300 - 400 APs (1000/2.8) and 3 - 4 HVs (10/2.8) and the CV

For an A+ D1 team it should be about 250 - 300 APs (1000/3.4) and about 3 HVs and the CV. *Note there is no cap on A+ prestige so it could be considerably less if the team is an A++++ compared to just barely and A+

This is assuming preferences are equal, but preferences could change the divisor/multiplier. I have no data as to what these multipliers are. Also, HVs can be used to catch up with APs if the D1 team is starting late, but I don't know how many APs = 1 HV.

One of the things I like about 3.0 is that what used to be a pretty straight forward mathematical equation now has many more variables. In 2.0 many coaches knew going into a battle if they would win or lose (and hence the very few battles between top coaches for top recruits). In 3.0 there are so many more variables that getting to that level of certainty is going to be difficult.

I personally think it'd make more sense if the prestige multiplier wasn't linear.

The difference between a D and C prestige is much smaller than a B and A. IMHO.

Posted by Benis on 1/6/2017 1:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by piman314 on 1/6/2017 10:45:00 AM (view original):
As far as prestige, it is thought that each letter grade at D1 is worth about 50 - 60% of effort, while at D2 and D3 it is worth about 10% of effort. So looking at it from the D1 coach's perspective who is jumping in late...

If an A+ D2 team has 1000 APs, 10 HVs and a CV, the equivalent for a D+ D1 team should be about 600 - 700 APs (1000/1.6), 6 HVs (10/1.6), and the CV.

For a C+ D1 team it should be about 400 - 500 APs (1000/2.2) and 4 - 5 HVs (10/2.2) and the CV

For a B+ D1 team it should be about 300 - 400 APs (1000/2.8) and 3 - 4 HVs (10/2.8) and the CV

For an A+ D1 team it should be about 250 - 300 APs (1000/3.4) and about 3 HVs and the CV. *Note there is no cap on A+ prestige so it could be considerably less if the team is an A++++ compared to just barely and A+

This is assuming preferences are equal, but preferences could change the divisor/multiplier. I have no data as to what these multipliers are. Also, HVs can be used to catch up with APs if the D1 team is starting late, but I don't know how many APs = 1 HV.

One of the things I like about 3.0 is that what used to be a pretty straight forward mathematical equation now has many more variables. In 2.0 many coaches knew going into a battle if they would win or lose (and hence the very few battles between top coaches for top recruits). In 3.0 there are so many more variables that getting to that level of certainty is going to be difficult.

I personally think it'd make more sense if the prestige multiplier wasn't linear.

The difference between a D and C prestige is much smaller than a B and A. IMHO.

And the difference between division is also a huge step, prestige wise. A D- D1 is still a lot more than a A+
D2.

Posted by zorzii on 1/6/2017 9:46:00 AM (view original):
If I D1 offers time, I think you are done. If not, your evaluation is about right, 4 to 5 hvs. As soon as 15 minutes are offered, from D (rebuilding an getting the program forward, human owned), the recruit is gone to D1. If he offers a redshirt, then you got it easier a lot easier, no need to hvs.

This is a "should be." Not a "this is how it currently works." Just to be clear, right? But I tend to agree. If you offer a kid 15 mins at a d1 school, he will take that over d2's 99% of the time (in "real" life).

Posted by CoachWard95 on 1/6/2017 9:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/6/2017 9:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by CoachWard95 on 1/6/2017 9:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/6/2017 9:08:00 AM (view original):
Although I HATE the idea of D1 ripping thru a D2 school's resources late, I'd have a hard time arguing at least 50%+ of same effort.

IOW, 501 AP, 6 HV, 1 CV and at least minutes should put them on the same level.

You sure to my understanding he doesn't want to be in that 10% range. Lets assume 10% is VERY HIGH/HIGH instead of MODERATE/LOW or MODERATE/VERY LOW.

I don't have any idea what that actually means, but I think Mike's example puts a C prestige D1 Very high and the D2 team high, An A prestige team probably knocks the D2 team down to moderate but maybe only gets the D- team to high or very high.

Its simple if you at MODERATE and he is at LOW/VERY LOW he won't sign with that person @ LOW/VERY LOW. I am not saying its more than 10% but it could be.

what do your %'s mean in this, coachward? Like can you write out what a 10% is? a 10% chance at signing the prospect? you are 10% of the way to signing them?

Posted by jpmills3 on 1/6/2017 1:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 1/6/2017 9:46:00 AM (view original):
If I D1 offers time, I think you are done. If not, your evaluation is about right, 4 to 5 hvs. As soon as 15 minutes are offered, from D (rebuilding an getting the program forward, human owned), the recruit is gone to D1. If he offers a redshirt, then you got it easier a lot easier, no need to hvs.

This is a "should be." Not a "this is how it currently works." Just to be clear, right? But I tend to agree. If you offer a kid 15 mins at a d1 school, he will take that over d2's 99% of the time (in "real" life).

It's the way it should be.

Posted by zorzii on 1/6/2017 2:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jpmills3 on 1/6/2017 1:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 1/6/2017 9:46:00 AM (view original):
If I D1 offers time, I think you are done. If not, your evaluation is about right, 4 to 5 hvs. As soon as 15 minutes are offered, from D (rebuilding an getting the program forward, human owned), the recruit is gone to D1. If he offers a redshirt, then you got it easier a lot easier, no need to hvs.

This is a "should be." Not a "this is how it currently works." Just to be clear, right? But I tend to agree. If you offer a kid 15 mins at a d1 school, he will take that over d2's 99% of the time (in "real" life).

It's the way it should be.

Nope. Makes for a ****** game for somebody.

It does not Mike. D2 has plenty options.