Last season in Crum I had one graduating senior and three guys who were a significant risk of leaving early.

At the very outset, I spread around my AP, and I unlocked three guys I thought I would be good with in case two left. One was an "early" signer. Two were "late."

BEFORE signings started, I offered all three scholarships, did a couple of HVs, and did a campus visit with the early signee. I'm leading on all three, and am in fact the only VH on all three.

SIGNING DAY! It worked, the early signee (in my backyard) signed immediately.

All of a sudden, I'm down to 20 AP. I split them between the two other guys.

Now, Denver (5 scholies) and Kansas start pouring AP into my two other guys. I'm chasing but end up falling behind. Nothing to work with, except for promises, I make minutes promises. I'm still trailing.

Now we get to declaring and two of my three EE candidates leave. As predicted.

I look around and there's noone worth pursuing who isn't already the subject of high resource battles I can't get in on. So I'm with these two guys. I dump all my cash on them, all my AP, etc. And I end up losing to Denver and Kansas. And I never really get close to either one. I was never able to make up the difference from the long deficiencies in resources from Cycle 1.

Did I not prepare well? Was I overshooting? The guy Kansas beat me on was a PF in Louisiana with a top 15 rating. But the guy Denver beat me on, and who I dumped most of the resources on, was a top-60 guy in Phoenix.

Oh yeah, it's not that I was shooting above my head. I coach UCLA and had two of the last three NC championships.

It's almost like the game is designed to punish those of us who win games.

(And before you -- and you know who you are -- tell me something has been discredited, it's not discredited only because we are sick of you doing your Trump impression and loudly repeatedly screaming something that is demonstrably false. Take it elsewhere).

As the game stands NOW, one has to aim lower for those phase 2 guys in that sort of situation - number of schollies, difficulty predicting what EE will go, etc. In my opinion.

maybe we will see EE's announced earlier - as staff mentioned in late nov they are working on......

Yeah, but I don't want the crapola special that may make it through. Until they make the change, walkons are preferred to what's left. My question is to those who suggested one can plan better and have backups. I'd also like to see WiS prioritize getting this done as I cannot imagine that it would be particularly difficult to simply move EE declarations up. The only ones that would lose face are those who pretend this is how they want it to be.

Serious question, as I've never coached at D1 - what's the lowest OVR rating (I know individual ratings are the ones that matter, but humor me) player that would be a useful role player on a D1 team by the time he's a senior? If you can't put a 750 as your backup plan and get him, would it kill your team to sign a high potential 600 OVR guy that could eventually develop to an 800+?

I like your approach, lakevin. Tell everybody not to post if you don't want to hear it (even if your argument has long been discredited in numerous forums).

Let's see if your approach works. I declare, NO MORE WHINING IN THE FORUMS. I don't want to hear it. :-)

How much recruiting cash did you have?

Even with one scholarship you should have had enough to do the 20 and 1 for 2 local guys right? You were at a disadvantage on the LA guys against Kansas and it doesn't sound like you did more than a few HV and CVs on him but how much did you sink into the AZ guy who was only a few hundred miles away?

Also, what is Denver's prestige?

They should leverage the draft board... give you a few extra APs if you have a player "likely" to leave or w/e the status' are. No money just AP.

Posted by lakevin on 1/9/2017 2:17:00 PM (view original):
Last season in Crum I had one graduating senior and three guys who were a significant risk of leaving early.

At the very outset, I spread around my AP, and I unlocked three guys I thought I would be good with in case two left. One was an "early" signer. Two were "late."

BEFORE signings started, I offered all three scholarships, did a couple of HVs, and did a campus visit with the early signee. I'm leading on all three, and am in fact the only VH on all three.

SIGNING DAY! It worked, the early signee (in my backyard) signed immediately.

All of a sudden, I'm down to 20 AP. I split them between the two other guys.

Now, Denver (5 scholies) and Kansas start pouring AP into my two other guys. I'm chasing but end up falling behind. Nothing to work with, except for promises, I make minutes promises. I'm still trailing.

Now we get to declaring and two of my three EE candidates leave. As predicted.

I look around and there's noone worth pursuing who isn't already the subject of high resource battles I can't get in on. So I'm with these two guys. I dump all my cash on them, all my AP, etc. And I end up losing to Denver and Kansas. And I never really get close to either one. I was never able to make up the difference from the long deficiencies in resources from Cycle 1.

Did I not prepare well? Was I overshooting? The guy Kansas beat me on was a PF in Louisiana with a top 15 rating. But the guy Denver beat me on, and who I dumped most of the resources on, was a top-60 guy in Phoenix.

Oh yeah, it's not that I was shooting above my head. I coach UCLA and had two of the last three NC championships.

It's almost like the game is designed to punish those of us who win games.

(And before you -- and you know who you are -- tell me something has been discredited, it's not discredited only because we are sick of you doing your Trump impression and loudly repeatedly screaming something that is demonstrably false. Take it elsewhere).

This x 1000! This is precisely the problem with the game. It punishes success. It's awful in its current incarnation.

- respectfully from one UCLA coach to the next.

btw - glad the titles are coming your way. My last two seasons (1 seeds both seasons) have resulted in second round and s16 exits. RNG!

Hi Lakevin,

Another UCLA coach here with a somewhat similar profile of success. I think you might of overshot on the guy in TX since he was top 15 overall? (and you only having a single RS1 opening) unless there were some serious flaws in him (very low WE or LP/Reb). I would of just put some AP into him and once Kansas (I assume another A+ program) came calling, to cut your losses and take the walk-on. Unless you can go all-in on someone that far away, its unlikely it would go unnoticed that you only had a single openings worth of resources available to you and that some other high prestige program would jump on him at some point.

The problem with HD 3.0 at this point for programs like ours is to compete for NCs, you *have* to take risks on EE-caliber players and hope lady luck smiles on you when EEs are declared in order to be successful. It is way more difficult in HD 3.0 to create a dynasty in Division 1 (way easier in D2/D3) and until WIS addresses it, we are stuck with random luck EE dictates who competes for D1 titles.

Posted by lakevin on 1/9/2017 2:17:00 PM (view original):
Last season in Crum I had one graduating senior and three guys who were a significant risk of leaving early.

At the very outset, I spread around my AP, and I unlocked three guys I thought I would be good with in case two left. One was an "early" signer. Two were "late."

BEFORE signings started, I offered all three scholarships, did a couple of HVs, and did a campus visit with the early signee. I'm leading on all three, and am in fact the only VH on all three.

SIGNING DAY! It worked, the early signee (in my backyard) signed immediately.

All of a sudden, I'm down to 20 AP. I split them between the two other guys.

Now, Denver (5 scholies) and Kansas start pouring AP into my two other guys. I'm chasing but end up falling behind. Nothing to work with, except for promises, I make minutes promises. I'm still trailing.

Now we get to declaring and two of my three EE candidates leave. As predicted.

I look around and there's noone worth pursuing who isn't already the subject of high resource battles I can't get in on. So I'm with these two guys. I dump all my cash on them, all my AP, etc. And I end up losing to Denver and Kansas. And I never really get close to either one. I was never able to make up the difference from the long deficiencies in resources from Cycle 1.

Did I not prepare well? Was I overshooting? The guy Kansas beat me on was a PF in Louisiana with a top 15 rating. But the guy Denver beat me on, and who I dumped most of the resources on, was a top-60 guy in Phoenix.

Oh yeah, it's not that I was shooting above my head. I coach UCLA and had two of the last three NC championships.

It's almost like the game is designed to punish those of us who win games.

(And before you -- and you know who you are -- tell me something has been discredited, it's not discredited only because we are sick of you doing your Trump impression and loudly repeatedly screaming something that is demonstrably false. Take it elsewhere).

Leaving aside whether 3.0's methodology of handling EEs is the best thing for the game (I imagine you and I have similar opinions on this), I think your "mistake" was shooting for folks outside of your geographical region -- in my opinion, 3.0 forces you to stay closer to home than 2.0 did in your situation, because you're forced to save money as much as possible for plan Bs, etc. The Louisiana guy was probably tough/impossible to max out on, I am guessing, unless you got the LA guy for nothing at the outset. Yet another misfire in 3.0, which was explicitly claimed to be designed for more "national" recruiting.

Posted by mbriese on 1/9/2017 2:38:00 PM (view original):
Serious question, as I've never coached at D1 - what's the lowest OVR rating (I know individual ratings are the ones that matter, but humor me) player that would be a useful role player on a D1 team by the time he's a senior? If you can't put a 750 as your backup plan and get him, would it kill your team to sign a high potential 600 OVR guy that could eventually develop to an 800+?

About this question doe

I dont look at total rating, so cant give a precise answer

At elite programs, I have signed guys at the high 500s and low 600s as useful players who wont be stars but can play a role - if their skillz and potentials are right for that

Ah yes, prepare for the unexpected is sound advice!

First, I was proud to be a bumped off by UCLA in their march to a Crum 86 championship! Glad to be part of history.

This should be a helpful thread, and I'm really curious to hear others' opinions and angles on this...

I think I agree with the posters who advised:
- pursue RS-2 guys that are closer geographically.
- drop 20 home visits (and the campus visit) as soon as possible (which is made affordable by targeting locals).

I think I would also add:
- at the start, pursue and unlock 2 additional guys early on.
- generally, if I saw Crum UCLA on any player from Southern California, I would be very reluctant to pursue the player... last season I did pursue a target of yours from Desert Hot Springs (looked it up-- Gannon), but I was banking on your EE Duncan Robinson to possibly stay in school... I put in just enough to unlock some actions, but I bailed on the guy once Robinson left.