Seems like zone double teaming is better than man to man double teaming. If you think about it and how it relates to real life basketball, this probably makes sense. Thoughts?

So my understanding of zone double team is that it goes to a box and 1. So you end up with one guy in man and then you remaining guys in a 2-2 zone.

If you put double team their leading scorer on for every game this could almost be considered an entirely new type of defense.

In a 2-3 if you double their PF would it average your SF and C?

Posted by fluff_nasty on 12/25/2017 6:23:00 PM (view original):

So my understanding of zone double team is that it goes to a box and 1. So you end up with one guy in man and then you remaining guys in a 2-2 zone.

If you put double team their leading scorer on for every game this could almost be considered an entirely new type of defense.

In a 2-3 if you double their PF would it average your SF and C?

That isnt true. Double teaming just means the guy being double teamed has a penalty on the decision on if the shot goes in.

it also. Negatively impacts a players chance to take a shot and the likelihood of a turnover.

This is from a ticket....

ouple Questions on Double Teaming: 1. Is Double Teaming just a flat penalty or does the quality of the defense on the floor dictate the penalty. To say another way, if I have a really good defensive team is double teaming more effective than if I have a poor defensive team. 2. Does a specific player (or position) double team or is it random or static? To say another way, if I double the PG does the SG do the doubling or is it a team effort? Thanks!
5/23/2017 9:37 PM	Trentonjoe
Could you please answer this.
8/31/2017 4:09 PM	Customer Support
TJ, I apologize for the delay in responding to your ticket. As you may know, we recently had a change in ownership, and as part of the transition, we're trying to clean up pending tickets. To answer your questions: 1. The quality of defenders impacts how successful the defense is at executing the double-team on a targeted player. So, a poor defense won't successfully double a player as much as a good defense. The specific impact of a double-team on a successfully doubled player is a flat amount, regardless of defense quality, although the quality of the defense is factored in separately. Hopefully that makes sense. 2. There isn't a specific player designated as the double teamer.

"The quality of defenders impacts how successful the defense is at executing the double-team on a targeted player. So, a poor defense won't successfully double a player as much as a good defense. The specific impact of a double-team on a successfully doubled player is a flat amount, regardless of defense quality, although the quality of the defense is factored in separately. Hopefully that makes sense."

Sorry, it doesn't, can anyone translate that?

Posted by Trentonjoe on 12/25/2017 10:02:00 PM (view original):
This is from a ticket....

ouple Questions on Double Teaming: 1. Is Double Teaming just a flat penalty or does the quality of the defense on the floor dictate the penalty. To say another way, if I have a really good defensive team is double teaming more effective than if I have a poor defensive team. 2. Does a specific player (or position) double team or is it random or static? To say another way, if I double the PG does the SG do the doubling or is it a team effort? Thanks!
5/23/2017 9:37 PM	Trentonjoe
Could you please answer this.
8/31/2017 4:09 PM	Customer Support
TJ, I apologize for the delay in responding to your ticket. As you may know, we recently had a change in ownership, and as part of the transition, we're trying to clean up pending tickets. To answer your questions: 1. The quality of defenders impacts how successful the defense is at executing the double-team on a targeted player. So, a poor defense won't successfully double a player as much as a good defense. The specific impact of a double-team on a successfully doubled player is a flat amount, regardless of defense quality, although the quality of the defense is factored in separately. Hopefully that makes sense. 2. There isn't a specific player designated as the double teamer.

In regards to #2, it would be nice to know how the engine decides on which players will double team, especially if you have a weak defensive player on the floor.

BTW: Absolutely unacceptable for letting a ticket go that long without answering it. In a situation like that, the customers should be the first priority.

Posted by l80r20 on 12/25/2017 10:54:00 PM (view original):
"The quality of defenders impacts how successful the defense is at executing the double-team on a targeted player. So, a poor defense won't successfully double a player as much as a good defense. The specific impact of a double-team on a successfully doubled player is a flat amount, regardless of defense quality, although the quality of the defense is factored in separately. Hopefully that makes sense."

Sorry, it doesn't, can anyone translate that?

Here is how I read it (and I may be very wrong).

A double team has a specific impact on the doubled player -- lets say it is a 15% reduction in effectiveness. That 15% is static -- if the most incredible defense ever was double teaming a player, the effect of the double team would be 15%, same as if a pretty good defense was doing it. But if you are using a DT with a bad defense, maybe it is only 5% effective.

Gotcha, thanks TJ that makes more sense.

My confusion came from the info provided on the double team page.

" If you choose to double in a man-to-man defense, your team will simply leave one player unguarded. In a zone, your team will slide into either a matchup zone, or a triangle and 2, depending on whether you are double-teaming 1 or 2 players"

So if you're double teaming two players, do 3 players stats get averaged and 2 players go to man? Or no?

Here was the response I got to a ticket last yr

Me: Quick question for my own clarification:

If I am running a zone defense and choose to double team an opposing player, my understanding is that my defense becomes a box-and-1, where 1 player is assigned to follow the opposing player all over the court.

When I do this, (1) does the defensive player in the matchup correspond with the offensive player's position (i.e. def SG always shadows off SG) and (2) how does the defensive player's ATH/SPD/DEF individual ratings factor into the success of the double team (is his defensive prowess still the product of the averages of his teammates or is it based solely on his individual ratings).

Response:

When playing a zone, you can think of double-teams as more like "key on this player". So a doubled player would often draw multiple defenders from the zone. It's not exactly like a box-and-1, which is a combo man/zone defense.

When playing a zone, any defensive factors are essentially averages of the 5 guys on defense, regardless of double-teams.

Posted by grimacedance on 12/25/2017 11:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by l80r20 on 12/25/2017 10:54:00 PM (view original):
"The quality of defenders impacts how successful the defense is at executing the double-team on a targeted player. So, a poor defense won't successfully double a player as much as a good defense. The specific impact of a double-team on a successfully doubled player is a flat amount, regardless of defense quality, although the quality of the defense is factored in separately. Hopefully that makes sense."

Sorry, it doesn't, can anyone translate that?

Here is how I read it (and I may be very wrong).

A double team has a specific impact on the doubled player -- lets say it is a 15% reduction in effectiveness. That 15% is static -- if the most incredible defense ever was double teaming a player, the effect of the double team would be 15%, same as if a pretty good defense was doing it. But if you are using a DT with a bad defense, maybe it is only 5% effective.

What I thought they meant was that good defenses are good at double teaming because they are good at defense

Using the 15% # from above, if I add a 15% penalty to a good defense it becomes better than if I add 15% to a regular defense. The 15% doesn't change but the base does.

Posted by fluff_nasty on 12/26/2017 1:19:00 AM (view original):
Gotcha, thanks TJ that makes more sense.

My confusion came from the info provided on the double team page.

" If you choose to double in a man-to-man defense, your team will simply leave one player unguarded. In a zone, your team will slide into either a matchup zone, or a triangle and 2, depending on whether you are double-teaming 1 or 2 players"

So if you're double teaming two players, do 3 players stats get averaged and 2 players go to man? Or no?

In a zone, it's always some weird *** calculation (which I don't think anyone really understands, even the guys who run the game because if they did they would be able to explain it way better than they do) that factors in the WEIGHTED AVERAGE of the 5 guys of the court AND the position of the player. It's probably like 20% team average and then 80% group ( PG-SG, SF-PF or C in 2-3 or PG-SG-SF or PF-C in 3-2).

the teams DEFENSIVE METRIC is calculated and that calculation is the base. The double team penalty is added to (or subtracted from depending on how you want to think about it) that number.

It's never like oh, the SF is going to cover the SF and the other 4 guys now become a part of the defensive calculation.

Now the next thing I want to play around with is click every players "if leading scorer" box and see if it'll cause more TO's. I suspect it will F up some offensive builds (I am looking at you triangle and FB teams). It's on my list....

Posted by Trentonjoe on 12/26/2017 7:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by grimacedance on 12/25/2017 11:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by l80r20 on 12/25/2017 10:54:00 PM (view original):
"The quality of defenders impacts how successful the defense is at executing the double-team on a targeted player. So, a poor defense won't successfully double a player as much as a good defense. The specific impact of a double-team on a successfully doubled player is a flat amount, regardless of defense quality, although the quality of the defense is factored in separately. Hopefully that makes sense."

Sorry, it doesn't, can anyone translate that?

Here is how I read it (and I may be very wrong).

A double team has a specific impact on the doubled player -- lets say it is a 15% reduction in effectiveness. That 15% is static -- if the most incredible defense ever was double teaming a player, the effect of the double team would be 15%, same as if a pretty good defense was doing it. But if you are using a DT with a bad defense, maybe it is only 5% effective.

What I thought they meant was that good defenses are good at double teaming because they are good at defense

Using the 15% # from above, if I add a 15% penalty to a good defense it becomes better than if I add 15% to a regular defense. The 15% doesn't change but the base does.

If you read it carefully, the response says something different. It seems there are two factors:

1. Double team penalty: static reduction
2. Chance to assign double team penalty: the better the defense, the more often you successfully impose the reduction on the selected opposing player

That's how I read it. Poor defenses don't successfully double team as often.

Bump

Agree with how y'all are reading it - and it makes sense - guys who are slow or have bad DEF ratings or low IQ will also suck at double teaming.