Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2018 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 1/18/2018 2:05:00 PM (view original):
Humanities classes DON'T teach critical thinking. They teach plagiarism and parroting back of professor's ideas/beliefs. If a teacher's favorite writer is Hemingway, you better not write a blistering critique of Hemingway for your term paper. (Which, oddly, is a fairly important job skill - that of bootlicking) Unfortunately, bootlicking is the OPPOSITE of critical thinking. Though if you wanted to make an argument that recognizing that your teacher/manager has a bias/blindspot and the fact that you know how to pander to it shows some critical thought, I might buy in at that level.

I think your ideas on how college works are a little misinformed

When my kids were whining about some required high school class, I told them:
- You take certain classes and get good grades in high school so you can have more choices about colleges
- You target certain colleges to prepare you for a job that you (might) like (at least at first...)

So figure out what you might enjoy and/or be good at that MAKES MONEY. Figure out which school prepares you best for that job. And take/excel at the courses that you need to get into that college/university.

Both kids listened, took the "right" classes for their targeted profession/college, got into their targeted (and financially feasible) colleges, graduated in four years, and are both now employed. So, I've raised and mentored two people who are happier and more successful than most of the negative nellies around here. I understand how college works, and how it isn't for "education", it's for vocational validation ("Applicants must have a degree in XXX") and certification and the diploma is the educational equivalent of a trophy.

Don't get mad and run away just because you were wrong once Boris. I love Algebra. But in all honesty. A knowledge of History is far far more important than understanding The Pythagorean theory. Unless you're a carpenter, or a Surveyor, or some few other specific occupations where knowing that little math trick would be handy!

It's OK man. We's all wrong sometimes.
A man can't be perfect.

Posted by laramiebob on 1/18/2018 3:22:00 PM (view original):
Don't get mad and run away just because you were wrong once Boris. I love Algebra. But in all honesty. A knowledge of History is far far more important than understanding The Pythagorean theory. Unless you're a carpenter, or a Surveyor, or some few other specific occupations where knowing that little math trick would be handy!

It's OK man. We's all wrong sometimes.
A man can't be perfect.

A knowledge of History is nice. But an understanding of History and PEOPLE is better.

Put it this way, do you consider Ken Jennings to be a super-productive, amazing person because he memorized more facts (and had Alex's exact reading cadence down to a pico-second)?

But Ellen is cool, because she GETS people. And I bet she didn't do **** in History class in college.

Boris. Historians are WHO gets to decide how the great leaders of societies are judged. Their studies and writings influence and shape the opinions of the people who come after us. It is because of them that we know (for example) what a great (and flawed) man Teddy Roosevelt was.

It is exactly THEY (historians) that will write the book that becomes the global opinion 100 years from now on the Trump presidency.
Fairly important role in society......... don't you think?

Your kids could do worse than major in history. They could decide to play music.......... LOL

Posted by toddcommish on 1/18/2018 3:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 1/18/2018 3:22:00 PM (view original):
Don't get mad and run away just because you were wrong once Boris. I love Algebra. But in all honesty. A knowledge of History is far far more important than understanding The Pythagorean theory. Unless you're a carpenter, or a Surveyor, or some few other specific occupations where knowing that little math trick would be handy!

It's OK man. We's all wrong sometimes.
A man can't be perfect.

A knowledge of History is nice. But an understanding of History and PEOPLE is better.

Put it this way, do you consider Ken Jennings to be a super-productive, amazing person because he memorized more facts (and had Alex's exact reading cadence down to a pico-second)?

But Ellen is cool, because she GETS people. And I bet she didn't do **** in History class in college.

I couldn't agree more. As I said earlier History is NOT about memorization of facts........ it is about gaining an understanding of what happened and WHY!

I don't know enough about Ken Jennings to make any statement on him. He may be productive and wise, or just have a good recall for lots of details/facts.
Don't know him at all.

As for Ellen. Ellen who? The Ellen from the TV show??
I kinda doubt she'd get me........... but I could be wrong. I've hardly seen her.......... mostly on commercials for cheap home type items......... which doesn't interest me........... she seems kindof annoying to me, really.

Posted by laramiebob on 1/18/2018 3:22:00 PM (view original):
Don't get mad and run away just because you were wrong once Boris. I love Algebra. But in all honesty. A knowledge of History is far far more important than understanding The Pythagorean theory. Unless you're a carpenter, or a Surveyor, or some few other specific occupations where knowing that little math trick would be handy!

It's OK man. We's all wrong sometimes.
A man can't be perfect.

Have you gone insane? I am walking away before I say something you regret

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/18/2018 3:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/18/2018 3:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/18/2018 3:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/18/2018 3:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/18/2018 2:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2018 2:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/18/2018 2:48:00 PM (view original):
College is there to teach a graduate marketable skills, period. If someone comes out with $200k worth of loans and does not have a marketable skill that will allow them to repay the loans in a timely fashion, there is a problem.

Just my opinion.

Well, no, that’s not correct. Some post-secondary education is designed to get you a job. Most universities are designed to educate you. That’s a little different.

Our opinions differ and that is OK.

My kids know that if they want to be history majors they can pay for college on their own. If they want to major in business, finance, pre med, engineering, etc. then I am happy to pay for it. You parent how you wish.

Free country.

Well... Then you are the problem with education in the US sir. That is pretty sad.

Now we know why Jews are better at business.

What problem? Leftists are always preaching. LOL.

You do what you wish with your kids. I would never dictate to others what they should do.

If I were your kid, I would want to choose a career that I want.

They can. But I will not pay for it if it is something I feel they will not be able to generate a nice income from. I am not stopping them. But money is not free. Something you cannot comprehend because you are uneducated.

You do you.

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/18/2018 3:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/18/2018 3:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/18/2018 3:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 1/18/2018 3:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/18/2018 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Then you didn't take Advanced Chemistry or Advanced Physics.

So you have no idea what balancing equations is?

Do you think chemists created all these medications we have from memorization or thinking and experimenting? LOL

People who choose to take advanced chem still can. My only point is that it should not be required.

And we learn algebra in middle school, idiot

That is not Algebra. Try again. That is advanced finance. You need to know Beta, standard deviation (stats), etc. That is AP Mathematics.

Who is the idiot now? LOL

Thanks for exposing yourself yet again.

I think a finance class should be required.

Please stop posting. You have completely embarrassed yourself again. You cannot learn this unless you take Calculus first.

LOL

I think you are a troll, Tangy. We are done conversing.

The finance class would obviously teach the calculus needed.

Posted by laramiebob on 1/18/2018 3:15:00 PM (view original):
I'll try again. Boris. History is NOT about memorization. It is about learning what occurred and the potential reasons/causes for what occurred. So we can not repeat the larger mistakes like the Morons many of us are seem so intent on.

It is called History.. HIS --- STORY.

Get it?

The tale of what happened. Most cultures find that a fairly important piece of knowledge.
Don't the Jews?

Well said.

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/18/2018 3:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 1/18/2018 3:22:00 PM (view original):
Don't get mad and run away just because you were wrong once Boris. I love Algebra. But in all honesty. A knowledge of History is far far more important than understanding The Pythagorean theory. Unless you're a carpenter, or a Surveyor, or some few other specific occupations where knowing that little math trick would be handy!

It's OK man. We's all wrong sometimes.
A man can't be perfect.

Have you gone insane? I am walking away before I say something you regret

^What Boris says when he has been outsnarted.

Posted by toddcommish on 1/18/2018 3:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2018 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 1/18/2018 2:05:00 PM (view original):
Humanities classes DON'T teach critical thinking. They teach plagiarism and parroting back of professor's ideas/beliefs. If a teacher's favorite writer is Hemingway, you better not write a blistering critique of Hemingway for your term paper. (Which, oddly, is a fairly important job skill - that of bootlicking) Unfortunately, bootlicking is the OPPOSITE of critical thinking. Though if you wanted to make an argument that recognizing that your teacher/manager has a bias/blindspot and the fact that you know how to pander to it shows some critical thought, I might buy in at that level.

I think your ideas on how college works are a little misinformed

When my kids were whining about some required high school class, I told them:
- You take certain classes and get good grades in high school so you can have more choices about colleges
- You target certain colleges to prepare you for a job that you (might) like (at least at first...)

So figure out what you might enjoy and/or be good at that MAKES MONEY. Figure out which school prepares you best for that job. And take/excel at the courses that you need to get into that college/university.

Both kids listened, took the "right" classes for their targeted profession/college, got into their targeted (and financially feasible) colleges, graduated in four years, and are both now employed. So, I've raised and mentored two people who are happier and more successful than most of the negative nellies around here. I understand how college works, and how it isn't for "education", it's for vocational validation ("Applicants must have a degree in XXX") and certification and the diploma is the educational equivalent of a trophy.

I was more responding to the idea that humanities classes teach plagiarism and parroting rather than critical thinking.

It's misguided.

I was a poli sci major. I had an international relations professor who had worked in the first Bush admin. Dude was a huge war hawk. It was 2004, less than a year after Powell's speech that essentially sealed the deal on going into Iraq. That professor did not hide the fact that he was for the war and yet he encouraged debate and disagreement.

And there were plenty of liberal professors that behaved in the same way. We debated affirmative action in Justice and Diversity classes. The people arguing against did not lose points because they were against it.

Posted by toddcommish on 1/18/2018 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2018 4:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 1/18/2018 3:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2018 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 1/18/2018 2:05:00 PM (view original):
Humanities classes DON'T teach critical thinking. They teach plagiarism and parroting back of professor's ideas/beliefs. If a teacher's favorite writer is Hemingway, you better not write a blistering critique of Hemingway for your term paper. (Which, oddly, is a fairly important job skill - that of bootlicking) Unfortunately, bootlicking is the OPPOSITE of critical thinking. Though if you wanted to make an argument that recognizing that your teacher/manager has a bias/blindspot and the fact that you know how to pander to it shows some critical thought, I might buy in at that level.

I think your ideas on how college works are a little misinformed

When my kids were whining about some required high school class, I told them:
- You take certain classes and get good grades in high school so you can have more choices about colleges
- You target certain colleges to prepare you for a job that you (might) like (at least at first...)

So figure out what you might enjoy and/or be good at that MAKES MONEY. Figure out which school prepares you best for that job. And take/excel at the courses that you need to get into that college/university.

Both kids listened, took the "right" classes for their targeted profession/college, got into their targeted (and financially feasible) colleges, graduated in four years, and are both now employed. So, I've raised and mentored two people who are happier and more successful than most of the negative nellies around here. I understand how college works, and how it isn't for "education", it's for vocational validation ("Applicants must have a degree in XXX") and certification and the diploma is the educational equivalent of a trophy.

I was more responding to the idea that humanities classes teach plagiarism and parroting rather than critical thinking.

It's misguided.

I was a poli sci major. I had an international relations professor who had worked in the first Bush admin. Dude was a huge war hawk. It was 2004, less than a year after Powell's speech that essentially sealed the deal on going into Iraq. That professor did not hide the fact that he was for the war and yet he encouraged debate and disagreement.

And there were plenty of liberal professors that behaved in the same way. We debated affirmative action in Justice and Diversity classes. The people arguing against did not lose points because they were against it.

Well, that's different from the experience that I had in (required) humanities/history/polisci classes. And different from the way my kids portrayed it.

Actually, in your example, that type of free-discussion is probably WORSE for you in the job market. I guarantee that if you openly debated something your boss said at work, you would suffer some consequences (long-term or short-term depends on the manager)

p.s. Hey, at least we've pegged your age as roughly early 30's.

36 actually.

Like I said before, colleges, at least traditional four year universities, aren’t specifically trying to prep you for a job. They’re teaching you how to to think, educating you, and turning you into a well-rounded person.

Posted by laramiebob on 1/18/2018 3:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/18/2018 3:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2018 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Um ok. I’m just pointing out that the point of a university is to educate people. Not provide job training. And fwiw, history majors can get good jobs. My sister was a history major and she makes more money than most people.

Thats fine and our opinions differ. I believe universities need to teach a marketable skill. I never said you were wrong. Opinions cannot be wrong.

Boris. You're getting dumber and dumber........... didn't we cover this before???

OPINIONS can most definitely be WRONG!! People have incorrect opinions every freaking day!!
Because people are human. We are sometimes WRONG! That means sometimes are opinions are exactly WRONG!!!!

Like all those humans that firmly believed (for scores and scores of years they all shared the OPINION) that the Earth was flat!!!
They were wrong!!!

What part of that do you not comprehende??
It is rather simple.
Not what I'd call a complex issue.
You that daft?
That sure would explain why you're still aboard that sinking ship of fools! LOL

There's been a pick or two!

Saying the earth is flat is NOT an opinion. It is a delusion. It is a proven fact that the earth is round. It is a proven fact that dogs (most of them at least) have four legs. If I state that I believe most dogs have 3 legs, that is not a wrong opinion. That is just me being crazy. Opinions can not be wrong.

Posted by wylie715 on 1/18/2018 6:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 1/18/2018 3:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 1/18/2018 3:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2018 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Um ok. I’m just pointing out that the point of a university is to educate people. Not provide job training. And fwiw, history majors can get good jobs. My sister was a history major and she makes more money than most people.

Thats fine and our opinions differ. I believe universities need to teach a marketable skill. I never said you were wrong. Opinions cannot be wrong.

Boris. You're getting dumber and dumber........... didn't we cover this before???

OPINIONS can most definitely be WRONG!! People have incorrect opinions every freaking day!!
Because people are human. We are sometimes WRONG! That means sometimes are opinions are exactly WRONG!!!!

Like all those humans that firmly believed (for scores and scores of years they all shared the OPINION) that the Earth was flat!!!
They were wrong!!!

What part of that do you not comprehende??
It is rather simple.
Not what I'd call a complex issue.
You that daft?
That sure would explain why you're still aboard that sinking ship of fools! LOL

There's been a pick or two!

Saying the earth is flat is NOT an opinion. It is a delusion. It is a proven fact that the earth is round. It is a proven fact that dogs (most of them at least) have four legs. If I state that I believe most dogs have 3 legs, that is not a wrong opinion. That is just me being crazy. Opinions can not be wrong.

Just opining here, but the earth being flat used to be a common opinion. That opinion was wrong, but at the time it was not 'crazy' per say. What is your idea of what is a delusion and what is not?

I am not trying to take sides on this BTW.
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