Posted by thewizard17 on 2/20/2018 5:07:00 PM (view original):
Athleticism couldn't be above 90 for bird, he could barely jump. Speed maybe 50. Perimeter and low post, both in the 90s. FT A+. Pass could definitely be in the 90s.

Athleticism is more than vertical, certainly in HD context.

In the context of HD, there is no possible way a HD player puts up his rebounding stats without elite athleticism, which is why I ignored the mythology of the unathletic white guy who “couldn’t jump”.

Posted by shoe3 on 2/20/2018 6:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 2/20/2018 4:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 2/20/2018 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Stephen Curry:
OVR-900
Ath-70
Spd-95
Reb-45
Def-85
Blk-20
LP-60
Per-100
BH-70
Pass-90
WE-95
Sta-95
Dur-75
FT-A

Bh 75!!! Do you watch basketball!

I do. And I watched college basketball when Curry was at Davidson. His first two years, his assist-turnover ratio was barely over 1:1. Improved his final year, but still not in line with stats from an elite BH guard in HD.

That was more passing than ball handling. Curry was a SG until his last season. Google is Georgetown game or his Gonzaga game. His dribbling is what got him a lot of his shots, as it is today.

Posted by brett3154 on 2/20/2018 7:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 2/20/2018 6:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 2/20/2018 4:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 2/20/2018 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Stephen Curry:
OVR-900
Ath-70
Spd-95
Reb-45
Def-85
Blk-20
LP-60
Per-100
BH-70
Pass-90
WE-95
Sta-95
Dur-75
FT-A

Bh 75!!! Do you watch basketball!

I do. And I watched college basketball when Curry was at Davidson. His first two years, his assist-turnover ratio was barely over 1:1. Improved his final year, but still not in line with stats from an elite BH guard in HD.

That was more passing than ball handling. Curry was a SG until his last season. Google is Georgetown game or his Gonzaga game. His dribbling is what got him a lot of his shots, as it is today.

Show me some guards who get drafted 7th overall with only 70 BH. I'll wait.

Posted by Benis on 2/20/2018 7:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by brett3154 on 2/20/2018 7:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 2/20/2018 6:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 2/20/2018 4:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 2/20/2018 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Stephen Curry:
OVR-900
Ath-70
Spd-95
Reb-45
Def-85
Blk-20
LP-60
Per-100
BH-70
Pass-90
WE-95
Sta-95
Dur-75
FT-A

Bh 75!!! Do you watch basketball!

I do. And I watched college basketball when Curry was at Davidson. His first two years, his assist-turnover ratio was barely over 1:1. Improved his final year, but still not in line with stats from an elite BH guard in HD.

That was more passing than ball handling. Curry was a SG until his last season. Google is Georgetown game or his Gonzaga game. His dribbling is what got him a lot of his shots, as it is today.

Show me some guards who get drafted 7th overall with only 70 BH. I'll wait.

That version of Steph Curry gets drafted in 2nd round, not top 10.

Lottery guards with ball handling in the 70s or lower
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?pid=3780528
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3706334
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3683091
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3683136
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?pid=3635001
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3634990
That’s just Phelan from the last few years. I don’t think a 70 rating in ball handling would drop him to the second round. Though it is true that what the real life NBA values is a little different from what HD Sim NBA values, and that’s kind of the point of this whole exercise.

You could make a case that by his third year, his ball handling was a bit higher, maybe upper 70s to low 80s. I don’t think you can accurately recreate his college stats for HD and bring the BH up any higher than that.

Am I the only one to notice that shoe has Jordan at 85 defense, the same that he has Curry at? Now granted, I'm barely old enough to remember Curry in college, but I just can't believe one of the absolute best NBA defenders(88 dpoy) was at the same level as Stephen Curry.

Without even looking I'm going to guess those links are to players with close to 100 Ath/SPD/def. Or they are players who are actually more like SFs and are just listed position as PG or SG, which as we all know doesn't matter for the HD draft.

Posted by kingsallday on 2/21/2018 2:40:00 AM (view original):
Am I the only one to notice that shoe has Jordan at 85 defense, the same that he has Curry at? Now granted, I'm barely old enough to remember Curry in college, but I just can't believe one of the absolute best NBA defenders(88 dpoy) was at the same level as Stephen Curry.

I’m speculating where their ratings would be to recreate their real life college career performances in HD. Jordan worked hard to improve his defense, which was already very good, during his NBA career. He fouled a bit in college, and in my thinking, the best way to account for that in translation to HD is to dip his defense a bit, rather than hit his athleticism or speed.

Posted by Benis on 2/21/2018 5:57:00 AM (view original):
Without even looking I'm going to guess those links are to players with close to 100 Ath/SPD/def. Or they are players who are actually more like SFs and are just listed position as PG or SG, which as we all know doesn't matter for the HD draft.

I found a couple more in a few minutes on Smith. I know you said you’d wait, do you want me to keep posting links, or would you rather keep guessing?

after watching the NBATV feature on Jacksonville, what would Artis Gilmore's ratings be?
7-2, 240 with 29 inch thighs and a 32 inch waist.

as a junior he averaged 22.2 rebounds a game and 26.5 points on 58% shooting. Throw in 1.8 assists. Blocks weren't tracked in college but he averaged 5 a game his first year in the pros.

In HD that would probably be a 98 ATH, 100 REB, 98 DEF, 100 BLK, 99 LP, FT: C-
But these ratings aren't that extremely rare in HD. And HD guys aren't grabbing over 20 boards a game. Maybe a 110 REB?

Gilmore was a beast. Has to be considered one of the best ABA players, after Dr. J.

I dont think it would would be possible to recreate his stats in HD, but he’s definitely 100 in all the cores for bigs, IMO.

Here are four guys you posted
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3706334
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3683091
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3683136
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?pid=3635001

All these guys are SFs, not PGs like Curry. Guys with ~50 Reb and ~90 LP to go along with 90+ ath are SFs. Two have 100 defense and the other two are 93 and 97. That's why they're going so high in the HD draft.

Let's look at the other two that are actually guards.

1st guy is a guard with 77 BH.. but 100 ath, 100 spd and 99 defense
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?pid=3780528

Last guy is a guard who has 76 BH.. but has 99 ath, 88 spd and 100 defense.
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=3634990

So the last guy that's even close to what you said Curry was and he would still have 29 fewer points in ATH, and 15 points fewer in Defense. 7 points higher in Speed at least... yay.

So like I said - even before looking, you either found SFs or guys that are sporting 100 ath, spd and defense.

And like I said - a guy with your Curry ratings would get drafted in 2nd round - if at all.

You asked to be shown guards who were drafted 7th overall with 70 BH, and then said that a guy with the ratings I gave Curry to approximate his college performance (which is the whole point of this process) would get drafted in the 2nd round, if at all. Both are dumb statements. Now that I’m providing examples you don’t think should exist (and it was only going back a few years in one world), you are backtracking and equivocating and “guessing”, which is, I suppose, what you are most talented at.

We can go further, if you like. There are some especially interesting examples in Naismith. But *like I said*, we all already know that the real life NBA values things differently than the sim HD NBA. The point of this thread is to come up with HD attribute profiles for real players that would result in the most accurate historical HD recreation of their college careers. So instead of obsessing over where he was drafted in real life, what you should be doing is finding players whose ast:tov ratio is comparable to what Curry did at Davidson, and work from there on his spd/bh/pass ratings.

Or you can carry on with your obfuscation, I don’t really care.

Okay, now that the draft position of this HD Curry is settled, let's move on to the relevancy of BH's impact on his Assist to Turnover Ratio - as stated by Poopshoe.

Having a low A:T means that either your Assists are low or your turnovers are high. Let's look at both scenarios which could lead to Curry's poor A:T

Low Assists: What HD rating impacts assists? BH or Pass? I'm going with pass here.
High Turnovers: What are the ways someone can turn over the ball in a game. There is a bad pass, getting your pocket picked, stepping out of bounds or tip out of bounds, offensive foul or travel/double dribble. The vast majority of turnovers from a guard are from a bad pass. What HD rating impacts throwing poor passes - Ball Handling or Pass? I'm leaning towards pass here.

Net- the reason Curry's Assist to turnover ratio was so poor as a FR and SO was mainly attributed to his passing ability, not his ball handling ability. This is obvious.