Never had this happen in my many many seasons of HD. I have a freshman who at a 2.5 after the first midterm, so I drop his SH minutes from 8 to 6. After the completion of the first term he actually went up to a 2.9 (Sweet! I'm thinking) so I drop him down to 4 min SH. After the second midterm, he plummets down to a 1.8, so I more than double his minutes and put him up to 9 to try to get back into good status.....what happens? He stays at a 1.8 and is now ineligible for the rest of the season. How the funk does that make any sense??? Pulled a 2.9 with only 6 minutes, then pulls a 1.8 with 9 (after a freaking 5 minutes increase from the midterm). This is only the second time I have ever had a player become inelgible in season, and the first time I have EVER seen a player not improve when his minutes are doubled. WTF?!?!

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=12082&pid=3973708

You gambled and lost. A hard lesson learned.

How is that gambling? In 135 seasons of roster management I've never seen this. He was at a 2.9 GPA with 6 minutes....1.8 with 4.....going up to 9 should have seen substantial improvement. By more than doubling where he was all experience dictates an improvement. If he finished with a 2.9 at 6 minutes, how does he finish with a 1.8 at 9????

Probability. And yeah, you gambled. Dropping minutes for a freshman that finished first midterm at 2.5 is a gamble.

Posted by shoe3 on 6/23/2018 8:37:00 PM (view original):
Probability. And yeah, you gambled. Dropping minutes for a freshman that finished first midterm at 2.5 is a gamble.

How is it a gamble when he finished that semester at a 2.9 after the reduced minutes?

Posted by snafu4u on 6/23/2018 8:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/23/2018 8:37:00 PM (view original):
Probability. And yeah, you gambled. Dropping minutes for a freshman that finished first midterm at 2.5 is a gamble.

How is it a gamble when he finished that semester at a 2.9 after the reduced minutes?

Probability.

This isn’t all that different from the promises discussion. If you want to be safe, keep more minutes on him. 4-6 is a really low number for a freshman, unless he has good work ethic, and a HS gpa in the mid 3s. And even then, if he’s sitting at 2.5 for midterm *and you drop him*, I don’t care where he finished the semester, you’re gambling. You got a “lucky roll” for the end of the first semester, then you got bit. That’s life.

Just this year I had a freshman with 99 we and a 2.4 hs gpa. Didn't have enough sh, posted a 1.9 first mid term. Bumped it up. Posted another 1.9 for first finals. Bumped it way up to 16 sh, got em to 2.3 cumulative for second mid terms. Took it down to 12, and for second finals he went up to 2.4 cumulative. No real correlation. I haven't played this guy one minute. But I made sure he was eligible. Not hard.

Posted by snafu4u on 6/23/2018 8:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/23/2018 8:37:00 PM (view original):
Probability. And yeah, you gambled. Dropping minutes for a freshman that finished first midterm at 2.5 is a gamble.

How is it a gamble when he finished that semester at a 2.9 after the reduced minutes?

I'm different than most coaches with study hall. I'm much more cautious.

there's nothing that tells me.... "only 2.9? Ah, he's a genius and i can drop his study hall"

I've had discussions with a few coaches on these forums. And they tell me i'm wasting minutes. And maybe i am. But I NEVER want to deal with an ineligible player.

Personally I start with 10 for freshman until first midterm, and NEVER drop below 6 for freshman. Even if they're 4.0. I have started to change regarding So, Jr, & Sr. And i'm cutting minutes there. But freshmen are so sporadic that it scares me.

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/23/2018 9:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snafu4u on 6/23/2018 8:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/23/2018 8:37:00 PM (view original):
Probability. And yeah, you gambled. Dropping minutes for a freshman that finished first midterm at 2.5 is a gamble.

How is it a gamble when he finished that semester at a 2.9 after the reduced minutes?

I'm different than most coaches with study hall. I'm much more cautious.

there's nothing that tells me.... "only 2.9? Ah, he's a genius and i can drop his study hall"

I've had discussions with a few coaches on these forums. And they tell me i'm wasting minutes. And maybe i am. But I NEVER want to deal with an ineligible player.

Personally I start with 10 for freshman until first midterm, and NEVER drop below 6 for freshman. Even if they're 4.0. I have started to change regarding So, Jr, & Sr. And i'm cutting minutes there. But freshmen are so sporadic that it scares me.

I was similar to this when I first started HD...kept all of my players at or above 3.0. Only had one player ever become ineligible, and it was just due to early negligence, not seeing what I could get away with or gambling (happened 2nd or 3rd season...many years ago, wasn't paying attention/didn't know emails from AD mattered). Many seasons later I had an extremely successful veteran coach explain his practice strategy to me and saw how many minutes I was wasting. Reduced overall minutes to target 2.5 GPA max, and in 135 seasons have not had another player ineligible until now. My complain is the complete lack of correlation between practice minutes and GPA outcome in this situation. It does not match anything I have seen in my experience in my last 11 years as a HD coach. GPA was great at 6 min. GPA was bad at 4 min. I increase minutes 50% more than last known good level, yet GPA stays exactly the same as lowest bad level.

Posted by cardman17 on 6/23/2018 9:16:00 PM (view original):
Just this year I had a freshman with 99 we and a 2.4 hs gpa. Didn't have enough sh, posted a 1.9 first mid term. Bumped it up. Posted another 1.9 for first finals. Bumped it way up to 16 sh, got em to 2.3 cumulative for second mid terms. Took it down to 12, and for second finals he went up to 2.4 cumulative. No real correlation. I haven't played this guy one minute. But I made sure he was eligible. Not hard.

"No real correlation"

That's the problem. If there is no real correlation why the funk is the mechanic even in the game????

Further, in your example, the player starts poorly and you kept increasing until he was doing better. I would have done the same. In my example, the player started well and then saw his GPA go up with a reduction in minutes, then saw his GPA go way down and stay there after an increase in minutes. Its the opposite.

Posted by snafu4u on 6/23/2018 9:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/23/2018 9:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snafu4u on 6/23/2018 8:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/23/2018 8:37:00 PM (view original):
Probability. And yeah, you gambled. Dropping minutes for a freshman that finished first midterm at 2.5 is a gamble.

How is it a gamble when he finished that semester at a 2.9 after the reduced minutes?

I'm different than most coaches with study hall. I'm much more cautious.

there's nothing that tells me.... "only 2.9? Ah, he's a genius and i can drop his study hall"

I've had discussions with a few coaches on these forums. And they tell me i'm wasting minutes. And maybe i am. But I NEVER want to deal with an ineligible player.

Personally I start with 10 for freshman until first midterm, and NEVER drop below 6 for freshman. Even if they're 4.0. I have started to change regarding So, Jr, & Sr. And i'm cutting minutes there. But freshmen are so sporadic that it scares me.

I was similar to this when I first started HD...kept all of my players at or above 3.0. Only had one player ever become ineligible, and it was just due to early negligence, not seeing what I could get away with or gambling (happened 2nd or 3rd season...many years ago, wasn't paying attention/didn't know emails from AD mattered). Many seasons later I had an extremely successful veteran coach explain his practice strategy to me and saw how many minutes I was wasting. Reduced overall minutes to target 2.5 GPA max, and in 135 seasons have not had another player ineligible until now. My complain is the complete lack of correlation between practice minutes and GPA outcome in this situation. It does not match anything I have seen in my experience in my last 11 years as a HD coach. GPA was great at 6 min. GPA was bad at 4 min. I increase minutes 50% more than last known good level, yet GPA stays exactly the same as lowest bad level.

Again, I agree i'm over doing it, with my freshman SH minutes. But like everyone is saying, that's a choice/risk we decide as coaches. In your situation, I wouldn't look at it as "his GPA went up with a reduction". I would look at the whole picture as "this player is a concern, as his numbers are all over the place"

A few ways to look at this.... if you're not playing it safe, and you "aim" for 2.5 (which isn't a great and/or safe GPA for eligibility. It's a passing grade. But on a scale of 2.0 to 4.0 it's really low "target" imo), only having 2 players become ineligible in 135 seasons is an excellent percentage. It just sucks for you now because it happened in the present time.

If you're willing to play with fire, sometimes it burns. And you've gotten off easy in the long term. If you're willing to play it safe, you'll never have this issue. But the draw back is that you'll waste 2-4 minutes of practice time daily (which I think is NOTHING in the big picture. What's it change.... maxing out players late junior year instead of early senior year? That's no big deal at all for me personally)

edit.... after reading this again, it may seem i'm being aggressive towards you. I'm not at all. I'm saying that you caught a really bad break. BUT that possibility is there if you push the limits sometimes. That's all i'm getting at

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/23/2018 10:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snafu4u on 6/23/2018 9:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 6/23/2018 9:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snafu4u on 6/23/2018 8:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 6/23/2018 8:37:00 PM (view original):
Probability. And yeah, you gambled. Dropping minutes for a freshman that finished first midterm at 2.5 is a gamble.

How is it a gamble when he finished that semester at a 2.9 after the reduced minutes?

I'm different than most coaches with study hall. I'm much more cautious.

there's nothing that tells me.... "only 2.9? Ah, he's a genius and i can drop his study hall"

I've had discussions with a few coaches on these forums. And they tell me i'm wasting minutes. And maybe i am. But I NEVER want to deal with an ineligible player.

Personally I start with 10 for freshman until first midterm, and NEVER drop below 6 for freshman. Even if they're 4.0. I have started to change regarding So, Jr, & Sr. And i'm cutting minutes there. But freshmen are so sporadic that it scares me.

I was similar to this when I first started HD...kept all of my players at or above 3.0. Only had one player ever become ineligible, and it was just due to early negligence, not seeing what I could get away with or gambling (happened 2nd or 3rd season...many years ago, wasn't paying attention/didn't know emails from AD mattered). Many seasons later I had an extremely successful veteran coach explain his practice strategy to me and saw how many minutes I was wasting. Reduced overall minutes to target 2.5 GPA max, and in 135 seasons have not had another player ineligible until now. My complain is the complete lack of correlation between practice minutes and GPA outcome in this situation. It does not match anything I have seen in my experience in my last 11 years as a HD coach. GPA was great at 6 min. GPA was bad at 4 min. I increase minutes 50% more than last known good level, yet GPA stays exactly the same as lowest bad level.

Again, I agree i'm over doing it, with my freshman SH minutes. But like everyone is saying, that's a choice/risk we decide as coaches. In your situation, I wouldn't look at it as "his GPA went up with a reduction". I would look at the whole picture as "this player is a concern, as his numbers are all over the place"

A few ways to look at this.... if you're not playing it safe, and you "aim" for 2.5 (which isn't a great and/or safe GPA for eligibility. It's a passing grade. But on a scale of 2.0 to 4.0 it's really low "target" imo), only having 2 players become ineligible in 135 seasons is an excellent percentage. It just sucks for you now because it happened in the present time.

If you're willing to play with fire, sometimes it burns. And you've gotten off easy in the long term. If you're willing to play it safe, you'll never have this issue. But the draw back is that you'll waste 2-4 minutes of practice time daily (which I think is NOTHING in the big picture. What's it change.... maxing out players late junior year instead of early senior year? That's no big deal at all for me personally)

edit.... after reading this again, it may seem i'm being aggressive towards you. I'm not at all. I'm saying that you caught a really bad break. BUT that possibility is there if you push the limits sometimes. That's all i'm getting at

if 2.01 is eligible, then anything above that is excessive. In the real world, coaches aim for the bare minimum that allows players to take the court (I know this as someone who worked through grad school as a tutor for a powerhouse DI program that has won multiple national championships, one while I was tutoring the team). WIS is a game of min/max. Doing anything excessive necessarily handicaps you in another way (as one of the weird coaches who runs a combo defense, this is doubly true, every single individual practice minute counts much more). Aiming for 2.5 is well above what is necessary.

Further, the player was not all over the place. I saw he did well after the first midterm so I reduced minutes a little. I saw he was still doing well at the end of the semester so I reduced minutes a little more. I saw he was struggling after the second midterm (indicating to me a went a little too low) so I more than doubled his minutes, above the original level where he was doing well, and well above the level where he was doing really well. Then ?????, despite a big increase in minutes there is no change at all. He had a pattern of success followed by a decline after further reduction. Expecting an increase in GPA after a more than a double increase in SH is more than reasonable.


edit: just saw your edit, and with everyone else crapping on me I can see where I am coming off as aggressively defensive. I do appreciate your actual contributions and discussion here. I agree, I got a bad break. Hence my ranting.