I dont think that keeping him out of games changes the odds that he will be okay with redshirt, based on what I have experienced and read. But, worth a try

Posted by zagsrulez on 8/14/2018 5:28:00 PM (view original):
Depends. If the recruit isn’t interested in a redshirt from you, he will no longer consider signing with you. I think that happens when informed of a redshirt is used for a recruit that is in a higher division pool than your current team. It doesn’t matter how many other schools he may be considering.

This is definitely not correct. If a recruit wants to play, rather than getting a bonus for promising minutes or a start, you take a negative hit by informing them of redshirt. This applies the same as any other negative preference. It does not at all rule out that player from signing with you and the recruits division has no bearing on the outcome (outside of potentially how likely they will be to accept the redshirt, which is a function of many factors). I'm in D2 and I inform D1 recruits they will be redshirted all the time.

It could very possibly drop you back down a few levels (Moderate to Low/Very Low etc) but you can usually overcome this with minimal effort. A home visit or a couple rounds of substantial attention points usually gets you right back to where you were (assuming you had already offered the scholarship and they were feelin' your school). Especially if you're all by yourself recruiting them. Way more risky to try this when you're fighting another school for the recruit because of the step backwards that you'll take and lingering negative impact to the effectiveness of your attention points. In those instances it's like some people mentioned - do you only want this player if they will redshirt?

But don't be afraid to inform anyone you want that they will be redshirted - just make sure you're prepared to win them back over after they get a little upset.

Posted by teamvip on 8/30/2018 7:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zagsrulez on 8/14/2018 5:28:00 PM (view original):
Depends. If the recruit isn’t interested in a redshirt from you, he will no longer consider signing with you. I think that happens when informed of a redshirt is used for a recruit that is in a higher division pool than your current team. It doesn’t matter how many other schools he may be considering.

This is definitely not correct. If a recruit wants to play, rather than getting a bonus for promising minutes or a start, you take a negative hit by informing them of redshirt. This applies the same as any other negative preference. It does not at all rule out that player from signing with you and the recruits division has no bearing on the outcome (outside of potentially how likely they will be to accept the redshirt, which is a function of many factors). I'm in D2 and I inform D1 recruits they will be redshirted all the time.

It could very possibly drop you back down a few levels (Moderate to Low/Very Low etc) but you can usually overcome this with minimal effort. A home visit or a couple rounds of substantial attention points usually gets you right back to where you were (assuming you had already offered the scholarship and they were feelin' your school). Especially if you're all by yourself recruiting them. Way more risky to try this when you're fighting another school for the recruit because of the step backwards that you'll take and lingering negative impact to the effectiveness of your attention points. In those instances it's like some people mentioned - do you only want this player if they will redshirt?

But don't be afraid to inform anyone you want that they will be redshirted - just make sure you're prepared to win them back over after they get a little upset.

It’s definitely correct. Look at Miami’s post, he has had a similar experience.

Posted by zagsrulez on 8/30/2018 10:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by teamvip on 8/30/2018 7:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zagsrulez on 8/14/2018 5:28:00 PM (view original):
Depends. If the recruit isn’t interested in a redshirt from you, he will no longer consider signing with you. I think that happens when informed of a redshirt is used for a recruit that is in a higher division pool than your current team. It doesn’t matter how many other schools he may be considering.

This is definitely not correct. If a recruit wants to play, rather than getting a bonus for promising minutes or a start, you take a negative hit by informing them of redshirt. This applies the same as any other negative preference. It does not at all rule out that player from signing with you and the recruits division has no bearing on the outcome (outside of potentially how likely they will be to accept the redshirt, which is a function of many factors). I'm in D2 and I inform D1 recruits they will be redshirted all the time.

It could very possibly drop you back down a few levels (Moderate to Low/Very Low etc) but you can usually overcome this with minimal effort. A home visit or a couple rounds of substantial attention points usually gets you right back to where you were (assuming you had already offered the scholarship and they were feelin' your school). Especially if you're all by yourself recruiting them. Way more risky to try this when you're fighting another school for the recruit because of the step backwards that you'll take and lingering negative impact to the effectiveness of your attention points. In those instances it's like some people mentioned - do you only want this player if they will redshirt?

But don't be afraid to inform anyone you want that they will be redshirted - just make sure you're prepared to win them back over after they get a little upset.

It’s definitely correct. Look at Miami’s post, he has had a similar experience.

I've kept quiet for the most part...I never recruit my division and I almost always inform of a redshirt to ensure they will take it when they arrive. I've had a few go completely uninterested but teamvip is correct for the overwhelming majority.

You can't say a rule is proven simply because one other person had a similar experience.

That example outlines that 80 attention points were negated by a negative response to the redshirt. I mentioned there would be a drop in interest levels. That is common. It can also be overcome. Also has nothing to do with the recruit being in a higher division. If Miami is saying that no amount of attention points subsequently were able to move the needle then okay, that may be a valid example. But if no further attention was given to that player that's not proof of anything. And regardless, I've informed several D1 recruits of redshirts, had them get upset, and then won them back and signed them. Usually with just 1 home visit. In each of these examples, I was already Very High on the recruit (or "Moderate" during cycle 1 but it can be assumed) and had unlocked all their actions.

Pdx - “I’ve had a few go completely uninterested but teamvip is correct for the overwhelming majority.”

so pretty much you’re saying that you also experienced my scenario just not that often? You are also validating my particular scenario. Teamvip is not more “right” because he has laid out a different scenario than me.

teamvip - well you and Miami are stating two different scenarios, which again doesn’t make my statement incorrect . I think this has already been brought up previously by someone else that he inform of reshot is more successful when the recruit is already considering you. Miami attempted to inform of redshirt BEFORE the recruit was considering him while you, teamvip, used the inform of redshirt AFTER he was considering you.

I understand that, that's why I made sure to highlight the conditions of my scenario. I would be very interested to know, however, if promising a redshirt early like that can make a recruit not listen to you anymore. Like 2.0 style where they would tell you to basically go eff yourself and now attention points do not accrue towards unlocking things. I've just never seen that in 3.0 but know for a fact that you can inform anyone they will be redshirted and overcome the obstacle* (given they are already considering you at Moderate-Very High).

I was responding to, what I interpreted as, a sweeping statement about recruits (esp D1 recruits) who don't want to be redshirted being unable to be redshirted by D2 teams (or D3 I suppose). I knew for a fact this wasn't right because I do it all the time. If it was, instead, a statement about how if you just decide to inform a player of redshirt who wants to play after just 80 attention points they can get mad and refuse to talk to you then that's fine. I can't speak to that and my bad. Not sure why anyone would do that though unless there's only one or two sessions left in the cycle and if that's the case, you're probably not just discovering great RS candidates. If we can't find consensus on the overall concept I think the one thing we can say with relative certainty is that if you have designs on redshirting a player, at LEAST wait until they're considering you and you've offered a scholarship.

I have definitely experienced players refusing to take effort from me after informing of redshirt. It happened to me once and I have tried to do it again since. Just isn’t really worth it to me.

The only time I inform of redshirt is when they are jucos or transfers. I rarely have freshman get upset.

Posted by teamvip on 8/30/2018 7:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zagsrulez on 8/14/2018 5:28:00 PM (view original):
Depends. If the recruit isn’t interested in a redshirt from you, he will no longer consider signing with you. I think that happens when informed of a redshirt is used for a recruit that is in a higher division pool than your current team. It doesn’t matter how many other schools he may be considering.

This is definitely not correct. If a recruit wants to play, rather than getting a bonus for promising minutes or a start, you take a negative hit by informing them of redshirt. This applies the same as any other negative preference. It does not at all rule out that player from signing with you and the recruits division has no bearing on the outcome (outside of potentially how likely they will be to accept the redshirt, which is a function of many factors). I'm in D2 and I inform D1 recruits they will be redshirted all the time.

It could very possibly drop you back down a few levels (Moderate to Low/Very Low etc) but you can usually overcome this with minimal effort. A home visit or a couple rounds of substantial attention points usually gets you right back to where you were (assuming you had already offered the scholarship and they were feelin' your school). Especially if you're all by yourself recruiting them. Way more risky to try this when you're fighting another school for the recruit because of the step backwards that you'll take and lingering negative impact to the effectiveness of your attention points. In those instances it's like some people mentioned - do you only want this player if they will redshirt?

But don't be afraid to inform anyone you want that they will be redshirted - just make sure you're prepared to win them back over after they get a little upset.

In this instance, I am at a DII school, recrutiing a DI player. Nobody else has looked at him. I was at moderate, which is obviously as high as i can get in period 1. I informed him of the redshirt, and he was no longer considering me.

Wow that sucks, I blame teamvip

Hahaha I blame me too.

My only question would be did you (BangW) try and win this player back over with APs or Visits? I so - and none of them worked because the recruit was too ****** off then hey.- guess I was wrong. Odd that I haven't seen anything close to that happen in, what feels like, a pretty representative sample size. Maybe I wait till my recruits are more strongly considering me, maybe this is a privilege thing since I've been an A+ prestige every season of 3.0, but regardless - I guess I need to be aware of this factor. Even though I'm in the middle of doing this right now to a D1 recruit who wants to play. Wasn't pleased with my decision but didn't go anywhere. I'll be interested to see if I ever personally experience this happening.

in my experience, inform of redshirt works much better when the player is already considering you

Also, it works much better when the recruit is happy to hear from you by virtue of his ranking and your prestige. So, if an A prestige DI team is recruiting a one star the redshirt is more likely to work. Less likely to work if a C prestige is chasing a 4 star. I bet, the same principle applies to a DII chasing a good DI recruit

Less likely to work when the player is a reach for you.

Interesting. In this case, I had more heated recruiting battles than I usually do. I only wanted this recruit if he would accept the redshirt. I didn't want to waste any AP if he wouldn't redshirt. I only put about 10 AP on him. I saw I was the only person on his considering list, and informed him of a redshirt. The next cycle I was no longer on the considering list, and everything on the recruit tab (home visit, promise minutes, offer scholarship, etc.) was back to 0%.

That's really interesting. To be clear, I've never informed a D1 prospect who wanted to play that they would be redshirted prior to getting them to "Moderate" and offering them a scholarship. I've dropped back down to Low or Very Low and fallen behind some other schools on occasion when doing this, but never had everything zero-out. I understand not wanting to put anymore points into them at that point because it's a losing battle but from a strategic perspective I'd be very curious if a player becomes completely closed off if you make them too angry too early.

Way I see it there are really only two potential outcomes:

a) Recruits who get angry early in the process can, in fact, become locked doors that a coach is unable to open - regardless of AP/HVs etc. Bad first impression ruined the relationship.
b) The reset of this player going back to 0% on all things is just the way the negative reaction processed when only 10 APs have been applied (or 80 like Miami's example). When there is a scholarship and the recruit is at Moderate, it manifests as a drop (sometimes) down to Low or Very Low (my current guy was unhappy but stayed at Moderate). When there is only a handful of APs, it just zeroes things out. Player could be built back over time but more APs would be required as you are now working against a "Very Bad" preference that was previously Neutral.

Still yet to see an example of a recruit that had over 80 attention pts applied to them that become completely unapproachable after being informed of a RS. And still no evidence that these recruits who zeroed out were completely closed off to future efforts. But it's all good. People are gonna recruit the way they recruit. But Bang4theW, to answer your initial question in this thread, IN MY OPINION, you absolutely could have signed that player and informed him of a redshirt regardless of his preference. Just would have needed to warm him up a bit, offered the scholly, and then been prepared to at least drop a HV or dedicate some APs to reversing the damage of the RS. Tough to do in a battle against humans, esp when someone might go the other way and promise him minutes. Or when you're spread thin in battles for other players. But by yourself or against low-level sims - that guy is redshirting next season. Just don't inform them of a RS after 20 APs. Feels like that should go without saying now.