Posted by shoe3 on 11/26/2018 6:40:00 PM (view original):
LOL@ “elaborate math,” AKA adding. It isn’t a straw man. Those are the actual costs, in terms of time and money.

I haven’t proposed SLU and Gonzaga being the same. What I’ve said in the past is some version of:
*D3 is a free to play sandbox with no incentives.
*New users start paying at D2.
*After 1 season, eligible for D prestige D1 teams.
*After 5 seasons or 3 tournament wins (D2 or D1), eligible for C prestige D1 teams.
*After 7 seasons or 5 tournament wins, eligible for B prestige D1 teams.
*After 10 seasons or 8 tournament wins, eligible for A prestige teams.

Gonzaga would still be a higher reach, and require a better resume. But both would be significantly cheaper.

If this is the alternative to the current system, let's keep the current system. Your system would hand out good jobs as participation trophies. We can do better.

Posted by kcsundevil on 11/26/2018 7:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 11/26/2018 6:40:00 PM (view original):
LOL@ “elaborate math,” AKA adding. It isn’t a straw man. Those are the actual costs, in terms of time and money.

I haven’t proposed SLU and Gonzaga being the same. What I’ve said in the past is some version of:
*D3 is a free to play sandbox with no incentives.
*New users start paying at D2.
*After 1 season, eligible for D prestige D1 teams.
*After 5 seasons or 3 tournament wins (D2 or D1), eligible for C prestige D1 teams.
*After 7 seasons or 5 tournament wins, eligible for B prestige D1 teams.
*After 10 seasons or 8 tournament wins, eligible for A prestige teams.

Gonzaga would still be a higher reach, and require a better resume. But both would be significantly cheaper.

If this is the alternative to the current system, let's keep the current system. Your system would hand out good jobs as participation trophies. We can do better.

You have me rolling tonight. Winning 8 NT games and/or spending more than a year and probably at least $50, likely more, is worthy of something called a “participation trophy”. Ok. Look, I understand the resentment, the thought that these young kids should have to go through the same tedious bullsh!t I went through. Thing is, it’s harming the game. Every single person I’ve tried and failed to turn on to the game has cited this ridiculous cost of time and money to get to the level they are thinking about when considering an NCAA basketball game when saying nah. It’s why it took me 7 years before I even gave the game a chance.

And its pointless. It’s conditioned by the stupid, short-sighted setup of having multiple levels that people aren’t interested in. Having 3 levels isn’t necessary. No other college game I’ve ever played has made you start in D3. Why stop at D3? Why not start your career as a grad assistant, or better yet, intramural player/coach, or middle school church league coach? Tons of fun. What, aren’t you up for a challenge, you just want those fancy Summit League jobs as “participation trophies?”

Forced stratification is stupid, especially when it’s this absurdly steep.

I think that getting to D1 is too long, but I also think that PT win should not get you a promotion. I think if you win a NT tournament game you should be able to move up instead of having to wait 3 more seasons no matter what. There should be a better sense of a "good player" which should speed up promotion for those players.

Posted by shoe3 on 11/26/2018 8:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 11/26/2018 7:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 11/26/2018 6:40:00 PM (view original):
LOL@ “elaborate math,” AKA adding. It isn’t a straw man. Those are the actual costs, in terms of time and money.

I haven’t proposed SLU and Gonzaga being the same. What I’ve said in the past is some version of:
*D3 is a free to play sandbox with no incentives.
*New users start paying at D2.
*After 1 season, eligible for D prestige D1 teams.
*After 5 seasons or 3 tournament wins (D2 or D1), eligible for C prestige D1 teams.
*After 7 seasons or 5 tournament wins, eligible for B prestige D1 teams.
*After 10 seasons or 8 tournament wins, eligible for A prestige teams.

Gonzaga would still be a higher reach, and require a better resume. But both would be significantly cheaper.

If this is the alternative to the current system, let's keep the current system. Your system would hand out good jobs as participation trophies. We can do better.

You have me rolling tonight. Winning 8 NT games and/or spending more than a year and probably at least $50, likely more, is worthy of something called a “participation trophy”. Ok. Look, I understand the resentment, the thought that these young kids should have to go through the same tedious bullsh!t I went through. Thing is, it’s harming the game. Every single person I’ve tried and failed to turn on to the game has cited this ridiculous cost of time and money to get to the level they are thinking about when considering an NCAA basketball game when saying nah. It’s why it took me 7 years before I even gave the game a chance.

And its pointless. It’s conditioned by the stupid, short-sighted setup of having multiple levels that people aren’t interested in. Having 3 levels isn’t necessary. No other college game I’ve ever played has made you start in D3. Why stop at D3? Why not start your career as a grad assistant, or better yet, intramural player/coach, or middle school church league coach? Tons of fun. What, aren’t you up for a challenge, you just want those fancy Summit League jobs as “participation trophies?”

Forced stratification is stupid, especially when it’s this absurdly steep.

We aren't that far apart. If it were up to me I'd do away wirh D3 and D2 entirely, for generally the same reasons you stated.

"No other college game I’ve ever played has made you start in D3. Why stop at D3? Why not start your career as a grad assistant, or better yet, intramural player/coach, or middle school church league coach?"


Honestly, totally down for this.
Dibs on team blue in the the 7-8 year old YMCA league.

Question for zagsrulez.

Lets say Mark Few retires at the end of this season. They decide to hire Pat Chambers.

As a Zags fan, does Pat Chambers check all the boxes for the job?

If Few retires after this season, Gonzaga will be at A+ prestige, so no.

Bad argument. (But I still don't think a PIT win gets you to Gonzaga in this game).

Shoe - I guess what you say sadly makes sense. But not because of the time and effort, but because Seble has fcked up this game so bad that NO ONE wants to play it. Worlds are empty, the game isn't fun so players don't want to sit thought multiple seasons to get to DI. See years ago, when everyone walked to school, people didn't mind playing DII and DIII because the game was fun and the worlds were full.

Now you have this shell of a game where you might as well only have DI because each division only has 80+ players in it.

Posted by mullycj on 11/27/2018 11:48:00 AM (view original):
Shoe - I guess what you say sadly makes sense. But not because of the time and effort, but because Seble has fcked up this game so bad that NO ONE wants to play it. Worlds are empty, the game isn't fun so players don't want to sit thought multiple seasons to get to DI. See years ago, when everyone walked to school, people didn't mind playing DII and DIII because the game was fun and the worlds were full.

Now you have this shell of a game where you might as well only have DI because each division only has 80+ players in it.

Whether you find the present game better or worse (much better, IMO, but you don’t have to agree) than the previous version, I think it’s very clear that not fixing jobs along with the rest of 3.0 was a serious mistake. Having all those vacated Big 6 programs crash because no one was eligible for them really eroded any good will or excitement they might have had from people who liked the product, and gave fuel to those who were always going to try to present it as a failure. I think the other problems with the game relative to the “early days” probably go back to potential, and that horse has been out of the barn for a long time.

I will maintain that having multiple levels only ever made sense from a short-term money grab standpoint. You could lop off those two divisions, and the vast majority of potential new users would see that as an unmitigated positive.

Posted by mullycj on 11/27/2018 11:48:00 AM (view original):
Shoe - I guess what you say sadly makes sense. But not because of the time and effort, but because Seble has fcked up this game so bad that NO ONE wants to play it. Worlds are empty, the game isn't fun so players don't want to sit thought multiple seasons to get to DI. See years ago, when everyone walked to school, people didn't mind playing DII and DIII because the game was fun and the worlds were full.

Now you have this shell of a game where you might as well only have DI because each division only has 80+ players in it.

Hahaha this is exactly correct.

Sad!

Posted by Benis on 11/27/2018 12:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 11/27/2018 11:48:00 AM (view original):
Shoe - I guess what you say sadly makes sense. But not because of the time and effort, but because Seble has fcked up this game so bad that NO ONE wants to play it. Worlds are empty, the game isn't fun so players don't want to sit thought multiple seasons to get to DI. See years ago, when everyone walked to school, people didn't mind playing DII and DIII because the game was fun and the worlds were full.

Now you have this shell of a game where you might as well only have DI because each division only has 80+ players in it.

Hahaha this is exactly correct.

Sad!

Actually 80 users in D3 would be a huge improvement. We WISH we could have that many.

Yes shoe - the job process is bad. But if you lower qualifications then you have to increase firings or you still have ****** off customers who, instead of sitting behind a SIM coach, are sitting behind an incompetent human. But Seble never wanted to go that route and risk ******* off customers so we are stuck with this muck......and still have ****** off customers.

However, I will say, with the worlds SO EMPTY its not hard at all to get into the Big 6 conferences anymore if you are even a mediocre coach.

If you make it easier to get to those jobs they have to make it so guys get fired from the jobs too. Otherwise there is no incentive to try to get to them if they fill quickly and never turn over.

That said I havent played in years so IDK if that happens still or not.

HiKnee

Posted by fluff_nasty on 11/27/2018 12:47:00 AM (view original):
Question for zagsrulez.

Lets say Mark Few retires at the end of this season. They decide to hire Pat Chambers.

As a Zags fan, does Pat Chambers check all the boxes for the job?

He doesn't check any boxes to be coaching at the #1 school in the NCAA. Not sure why you think a losing coach would be qualified for that job?