Posted by Sportsbulls on 12/20/2018 5:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 12/20/2018 4:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 12/20/2018 10:16:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 12/20/2018 10:10:00 AM (view original):
IT DOESNT MATTER

You are over analyzing this.

You want to win? get good players.....PERIOD.

I understand getting great players is the way to win and that is obviously mine and everyone else goal, but it clearly does matter at least a little and I want to win as much as I can so why not use the best offense?

No it really doesn't matter in the scheme of things.

And the fact that you are insisting on running "SLOW" tempo regardless of your roster makeup shows you are not getting the big picture. You recruit the best players you can THEN decide on tempo based on your team vs each opponent. Some seasons I go uptempo, others normal, others all three speeds. I have run every offense except FB and really don't see a difference in any of them.

With all due respect, this is just wrong. You’re the only one I’ve heard say this. I’ve talked to many coaches who’ve won a lot and they all say that this stuff matters. The type of defense and offense you play impacts the type of players you’re looking for. For in triangle you don’t need speed as much as FB, but you need more passing.

I’m insisting on running slow tempo because I want to run zone. Running fast paced while running slow down eliminates the point of running zone. The point of zone is you only need 8-9. Fast paced requires more stamina and bodies.

I guarantee others will back me up that you recruit differently for offenses and defenses and that running fast paced in zone is not smart. The “best player” for each offense, is different.

I run fast paced in zone all the time.

Also, I don’t think anything pairs with zOne better than anything else. There are a lot of other factors.

Zone reduces fatigue and fouls, that crap is helpful for all sets.

lastly, the difference between the non fast break sets are minimal. It’s easier to make 3’s in flex and you set your distro different in the other two. I don’t know who is telling you to recruit differently for each set but the differences are super subtle. A good player in flex is still a good player in triangle. I am hard pressed to think of a situation where a player with x y and z is better in one offensive set but not another than some other player with a different arrangement.

Posted by Sportsbulls on 12/20/2018 10:16:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 12/20/2018 10:10:00 AM (view original):
IT DOESNT MATTER

You are over analyzing this.

You want to win? get good players.....PERIOD.

I understand getting great players is the way to win and that is obviously mine and everyone else goal, but it clearly does matter at least a little and I want to win as much as I can so why not use the best offense?

Lol “best” offense. It’s all a matter of preference. All you’re going to get is a ton of opinions. There’s no “best” or “worst” offense.

Youre better off doing trial runs for yourself and trying out all four offenses paired with zone and finding out what works for YOU.

Honestly, I recruit the same no matter what offense or defense I am running.

Let me address a few points.

1. I misspoke when I said “I insist on playing zone.” I don’t insist but since I’m only 8 or 9 guys deep, I take the recruiting money from consistently having walk ons. I run normal a decent amount when playing worse teams, but in the late rounds of the tourney I almost always will run slow down because most elite teams press, most elite teams are deeper than 8 or 9 guys, and I have yet to encounter another zone team in the tournament.

2. When I said “best offense,” I meant to put it in quotations and I meant best offense for the descriptors of what I want to run. There’s no best offense, but there is a best offense for me and I’m yet to find that so I was asking for help.

3. Again, I have been told by coaches who have been very successful that you look at players a little differently in triangle than in fastbreak or zone and stuff. As TJ alluded to earlier, you need different things for different offenses.

Posted by Sportsbulls on 12/21/2018 12:19:00 AM (view original):
Let me address a few points.

1. I misspoke when I said “I insist on playing zone.” I don’t insist but since I’m only 8 or 9 guys deep, I take the recruiting money from consistently having walk ons. I run normal a decent amount when playing worse teams, but in the late rounds of the tourney I almost always will run slow down because most elite teams press, most elite teams are deeper than 8 or 9 guys, and I have yet to encounter another zone team in the tournament.

2. When I said “best offense,” I meant to put it in quotations and I meant best offense for the descriptors of what I want to run. There’s no best offense, but there is a best offense for me and I’m yet to find that so I was asking for help.

3. Again, I have been told by coaches who have been very successful that you look at players a little differently in triangle than in fastbreak or zone and stuff. As TJ alluded to earlier, you need different things for different offenses.

A little differently, exactly. Recruiting will almost be identical between teams, regardless of the sets run. One exception I have is taking ineligibles or redshirting players on a FB/FCP team. I only do it if I believe I can't make the NT next season, or if I am in the middle of a rebuild. For that set, it is key to have 12 guys who can play. Other than that, I look at things slightly differently, but it really all depends on what recruits are available to you. For example, if I am running triangle, I am not going to take a significantly worse big (whether that be less ATH or anything) just because he has BH/Pass in the low 30s as opposed to a more skilled big with those attributes under 10. Regardless of the set you run, if a team has the BEST players, they will usually be the best off.

Then again, like has been mentioned in this thread multiple times now, everyone looks at it differently. But I think most can agree that a "good player" in flex would probably be a good player in motion, or vice versa. I can't think of a scenario where one player is a stud in one set and not viable in another.

Posted by zagsrulez on 12/20/2018 10:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Sportsbulls on 12/20/2018 10:16:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 12/20/2018 10:10:00 AM (view original):
IT DOESNT MATTER

You are over analyzing this.

You want to win? get good players.....PERIOD.

I understand getting great players is the way to win and that is obviously mine and everyone else goal, but it clearly does matter at least a little and I want to win as much as I can so why not use the best offense?

Lol “best” offense. It’s all a matter of preference. All you’re going to get is a ton of opinions. There’s no “best” or “worst” offense.

Youre better off doing trial runs for yourself and trying out all four offenses paired with zone and finding out what works for YOU.

I agree with this for the most part. Best and worst isn't really the proper way to look at it.

There are sets that require different things to make your team flow. Fastbreak won't be as successful with 50/50 ATH/SPD guys. Compared to say, triangle 50/50 guys if all other attributes are the same. But there's not a "wrong" offense to play with zone necessarily.

But as this post says, it's best to take what you've learned along the way, try it out, and make the results happen. Everyone plays differently. It's difficult to "tell" other coaches what works better or best, when everyone has a different perspective. And they value success differently.

I could run flex zone and make the Final Four every season and feel like i'm the worst coach in the world because I haven't won a title with it, and flex zone sucks.

Another coach could run flex zone and make the Final Four every season and say.... hey i'm a Final Four coach consistently with my flex zone, and i'm on the cusp of greatness.

it's like... is your cup half full? Or half empty?

One of the great things about this current version of the game is that many strategies are valid, and can be successful. If you want to ignore the subtle differences between the sets, you can do that, and if you are able to land “the best” players, you’ll be fine. Elite players are elite, regardless of set; even IQ deficiencies can be overcome with elite talent for the level.

When you’re dealing with flawed players, which can often be the case at D3, knowing and recruiting for those subtle differences can have more impact. A D3 big with ath/reb/def/blk splits of 50/85/50/85 is replacement level at best in man or press, but can be an effective 5 in a 2-3 zone, especially with good IQ. And you can get that type of player for basically nothing most years, which lets you focus on battles for higher value “best” type players.

I run the zone and have found success with it. I do look for specific types of players to fit the needs on my team. With guards I look for SPD, ATH, DEF,BH,P. I don't specifically look for SF's but a guard that can rebound. With bigs I look for ATH, DEF, REB, SB. With all positions the other categories IE: LP, PER, ST, FT are what separate each player helping me decide who to recruit.

Choosing players for the type of DEFENSE you run is a different conversation than this.

I do recruit a bit differently depending on defense.....but NOT offense.

If you run slow down zone against inferior teams that aren't fcp you will lose games that you shouldn't have.

Posted by Heyhowareya on 12/23/2018 1:43:00 PM (view original):
If you run slow down zone against inferior teams that aren't fcp you will lose games that you shouldn't have.

I run normal tempo against bad teams.

This for the CSU, Eastbay Squad correct? Their default Motion-Man is a popular & successful O/D combo. Why not run that?

Posted by zagsrulez on 12/23/2018 2:24:00 PM (view original):
This for the CSU, Eastbay Squad correct? Their default Motion-Man is a popular & successful O/D combo. Why not run that?

I want to succeed with zone which fits me better as a recruiter.

Interesting. I’m not sure whether you’re using an alt account but this is only you’re 5th season. If this is you’re only account, why are you stuck on zone before learning the ins and outs of the other defenses? In my opinion, zone is the most complex and unforgiving defensive set when it comes to odd/unusual outcomes. There’s not that many HDers who can give you expert advice on it either..