There was a ticket and subsequent forum topic (maybe billyg?) asking if uptempo helped fatigue the opponent and the answer was an emphatic no. It just made your team wear out faster but had no effect on the opponent. Maybe that changed with the new version or maybe the answer to that ticket was wrong but that's the point in time I pretty much stopped using uptempo and honestly I've had more success since. Again take that for what it's worth. To answer topdogggbm I'm sure I wouldn't have the success I've had if I ran uptempo. In fact I'd guess I cost myself some titles running it for years before I stopped using it for the most part. I'm sure there are times for it but I think it is used way too much in general. Also, the fact that I don't recruit for stamina and still get it is kind of my point. For most players their stamina will end up being good enough, where there are a ton of players who won't have good enough athleticism etc. So if you say to me I can have guy with a 90 in cores but only a 50 in stamina I'll take my chances with 12 of them, but this would never happen because most guys as they get older their stamina usually get into the 70s anyway, which you can't say about athleticism or speed or defense etc. I guess said another way, if I recruited a random 12 guys, ratings unseen, stamina is the last attribute I would be unhappy with outside of durability. I would guess no other attribute would be up to par.
also this isn't arguing it discussing, which is what the forums are for in my opinion, so feel free to disagree and I certainly won't take offense, just know I mean no offense either.

Piman is correct on the ticket/effects of stamina in his previous post. It was something that was confirmed by Seble once upon a time.

I also agree with his thoughts on uptempo and virtually never run it myself. There was a billyg thread years ago where he went into why running uptempo produced more goofy results than normal and slowdown and several other elite coaches echoed his thoughts. Now that was before the overhaul when the gap between the top teams and good teams appeared to be much less than it is now so maybe those erroneous results are lessened these days? I don’t know the answer...just thinking out loud.

Btw, really great input from Piman in this thread.

Posted by piman314 on 1/7/2019 8:38:00 PM (view original):
There was a ticket and subsequent forum topic (maybe billyg?) asking if uptempo helped fatigue the opponent and the answer was an emphatic no. It just made your team wear out faster but had no effect on the opponent. Maybe that changed with the new version or maybe the answer to that ticket was wrong but that's the point in time I pretty much stopped using uptempo and honestly I've had more success since. Again take that for what it's worth. To answer topdogggbm I'm sure I wouldn't have the success I've had if I ran uptempo. In fact I'd guess I cost myself some titles running it for years before I stopped using it for the most part. I'm sure there are times for it but I think it is used way too much in general. Also, the fact that I don't recruit for stamina and still get it is kind of my point. For most players their stamina will end up being good enough, where there are a ton of players who won't have good enough athleticism etc. So if you say to me I can have guy with a 90 in cores but only a 50 in stamina I'll take my chances with 12 of them, but this would never happen because most guys as they get older their stamina usually get into the 70s anyway, which you can't say about athleticism or speed or defense etc. I guess said another way, if I recruited a random 12 guys, ratings unseen, stamina is the last attribute I would be unhappy with outside of durability. I would guess no other attribute would be up to par.
also this isn't arguing it discussing, which is what the forums are for in my opinion, so feel free to disagree and I certainly won't take offense, just know I mean no offense either.

This is fascinating to me and explains a lot. I love running uptempo because it allows me to get my 9,10,11 players court time. Those are usually long term prospects who I offered PT just to get in and are not likely to be part of my core until a couple seasons down the road. I thought a side benefit of uptempo would be wearing down the opposition with waves of talent (see below average coach , strong recruiter approach to winning).

Now I see why I get killed against press teams when I tried uptempo.

I sort of disagree with you piman.
Uptempo can wear down your opponent. Here's why.

Uptempo means more possessions, quicker shots, etc. The more possessions between deadball time outs means higher fatigue on both teams. Some times this is negated by press teams that foul a lot, but against man teams, uptempo can wear them down if you have a stamina or bench advantage.

Or if you are a high free throw team it can wear out the team through causing fouls and screwing with substitution patterns causing a ‘fatigue cascade’

Posted by a_in_the_b on 1/8/2019 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Or if you are a high free throw team it can wear out the team through causing fouls and screwing with substitution patterns causing a ‘fatigue cascade’

This is the 'fatigue' benefit. You don't wear them down with fatigue (I think you do but it is not significant) you wear them down when they get into foul trouble. For this to work, you need the ATH advantage though.

Here is some evidence for tempo affecting the other team's fatigue substantially.

Take a look at this screenshot. I just compared two games, one against uptempo and other against slowdown. They were back to back games so ST was about the same. In the uptempo game no one fouled out and in the 2nd game my SG fouled out in OT.

Seems pretty clear to me that my team was significantly more tired playing against uptempo than slowdown.

As with all other choices in this game I can think of, the choice to go uptempo is neither inherently good nor bad. It’s a gameplay decision that can work out well in some situations, and poorly in others. So it’s important to understand what it does and doesn’t do.

It doesn’t directly affect the other team’s fatigue. As TJ noted, you can indirectly do this if you can get guys in foul trouble, triggering the fatigue cascade; but if you don’t have an athleticism advantage, or if your opponents defense is excellent (especially if zone), it generally doesn’t work out this way. Nor does it seem to decrease the importance of passing, though that would make some intuitive sense. Faster shots don’t equate to fewer passes in this game, from what I can tell.

Uptempo does increase possessions, so if you have the better team, it is a way to mitigate the risk of an opponent going on a lucky streak and stealing a game. But it also increases your risk for turnover, so if you don’t have good IQ, speed, and ball-handling, it can backfire. It also directly increases your teams fatigue, so if you don’t have good stamina, it can backfire.

There were years at Abilene Christian where I would go uptempo virtually every game. Those were my best years. But my team wasn’t good because I ran uptempo, I ran uptempo because my team was very good, and well suited to it.

Posted by Benis on 1/8/2019 1:30:00 PM (view original):
Here is some evidence for tempo affecting the other team's fatigue substantially.

Take a look at this screenshot. I just compared two games, one against uptempo and other against slowdown. They were back to back games so ST was about the same. In the uptempo game no one fouled out and in the 2nd game my SG fouled out in OT.

Seems pretty clear to me that my team was significantly more tired playing against uptempo than slowdown.

I'd also add that my team Stamina was really good. 4th highest in D2.

Rockhurst

Are you seeing that long term Benis? I went back and checked 1/2 dozen box scores are find some wildly varying results in minutes. just back of the napkin mathing it, it looks like about 5% less minutes against up tempo compared to slow down

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/8/2019 2:39:00 PM (view original):
Are you seeing that long term Benis? I went back and checked 1/2 dozen box scores are find some wildly varying results in minutes. just back of the napkin mathing it, it looks like about 5% less minutes against up tempo compared to slow down

You should be more worried about quality of those minutes IMO. I could have two point guards splitting duties equally and both play about 20 min a piece. One game they play those 20 min minutes at Getting Tired and the other at Fairly Fresh. Which would you rather have?

I don't think piman is correct. Uptempo increases possessions, and more possessions mean more fatigue for both teams. The effect, I think, is generally less than you might expect, but still exists. See these prior forum posts that reference dev chats or support tickets.

https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=484239
https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=464122

Posted by Benis on 1/8/2019 2:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 1/8/2019 2:39:00 PM (view original):
Are you seeing that long term Benis? I went back and checked 1/2 dozen box scores are find some wildly varying results in minutes. just back of the napkin mathing it, it looks like about 5% less minutes against up tempo compared to slow down

You should be more worried about quality of those minutes IMO. I could have two point guards splitting duties equally and both play about 20 min a piece. One game they play those 20 min minutes at Getting Tired and the other at Fairly Fresh. Which would you rather have?

But I don’t adjust the strings on when to pull. Also, the color code system isn’t perfect. Fairly fresh may be 90% and getting tired may be 88%. I don’t worry unless they are yellow for multiple minutes past the denotatioj.

Color coding system isn't perfect...

Translation - I don't agree with what you're saying and have no data to back up my side so I'll just dismiss it as unimportant and irrelevant.

Yeah, stamina doesn't affect anything. So give it up Benis!