Posted by dino27 on 1/24/2019 8:04:00 AM (view original):
false equivlency....yeah greenieswere bad.....sometimes they took them...different kind of drug....im not going to repeat the differences ad neasem...greenies did not make them better players...they could have drank more coffee instead....greenies did not create physical attributes..or add to god given talent.
false equivlancy and never really came up until the apologists for the steroid cheaters.
btw..you are very snarky.

greenies DID make them better players...if a player was completely exhausted for whatever reason and played, the odds are pretty good that he would not play well. If he took a greenie to wake him up, he most likely would play better. How did that not make him a better player? The only difference is the HGH or steroids had long term effects while the greenies were short term. That is the only difference in my book.

Posted by dino27 on 1/23/2019 10:36:00 PM (view original):
sammy sosa is not only skinny but he is now white.
a few years off the juice and mark mcquire turned into tim mccarver.

sosa and mcguire are not part of this conversation. without steroids neither would even be considered for the hall of fame. Clemens and Bonds would have hall of fame numbers without ever doing steroids. I am not condoning taking steroids or HGH. Just saying they were two of the best players to ever play the game with or without PEDs and deserve to be in the hall.

Posted by 06gsp on 1/23/2019 7:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 1/23/2019 7:16:00 PM (view original):
what he said^^^ Any hall of fame that inducts Harold Baines but not Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens is useless. Nothing against Baines. He was a good player, but he was never great.

it's the way Baines got in that makes it such a joke. he was on the ballot for five years and never got more than 6% of the vote, with many of those years before the ballot got overcrowded with all the steroid guys and almost no writers were using all ten of their votes. then he fell below 5% in his fifth year and was gone.

that should have been it, but apparently if the owner of one of the teams you played on does enough politicking on your behalf, you can get in despite miserably failing by the established process. the veterans committee makes no sense when evaluating modern players anyway, in a pre-TV era there was some merit to it, but everyone voting now watched a ton of Harold Baines games and has access to video of him playing. no new information came to light since he failed to even get 5%.

just openly farcical

does it really matter how Baines got in? His plaque at the hall won't mention it, so who cares how he got in? If he had been elected by the writers instead of the veteran's committee, he still would not belong in the Hall

he belongs in the hallway.

Posted by wylie715 on 1/24/2019 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by 06gsp on 1/23/2019 7:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 1/23/2019 7:16:00 PM (view original):
what he said^^^ Any hall of fame that inducts Harold Baines but not Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens is useless. Nothing against Baines. He was a good player, but he was never great.

it's the way Baines got in that makes it such a joke. he was on the ballot for five years and never got more than 6% of the vote, with many of those years before the ballot got overcrowded with all the steroid guys and almost no writers were using all ten of their votes. then he fell below 5% in his fifth year and was gone.

that should have been it, but apparently if the owner of one of the teams you played on does enough politicking on your behalf, you can get in despite miserably failing by the established process. the veterans committee makes no sense when evaluating modern players anyway, in a pre-TV era there was some merit to it, but everyone voting now watched a ton of Harold Baines games and has access to video of him playing. no new information came to light since he failed to even get 5%.

just openly farcical

does it really matter how Baines got in? His plaque at the hall won't mention it, so who cares how he got in? If he had been elected by the writers instead of the veteran's committee, he still would not belong in the Hall

it matters to me because it makes a mockery of the whole process. the writers have voted in guys i didn't think belonged and not voted for guys i did think belonged. reasonable people can and will disagree but there is something to be said for the current process, as there's a good amount of transparency with the majority of voters revealing their ballots. plus the hundreds of people voting mean a few idiots can't break the entire thing.

but when one powerful owner with an agenda can undermine the whole process, it makes me not care about it. the veteran's committee was supposed to be for overlooked players from past eras, Negro League players, that kind of thing.

i dunno, maybe the process was always crooked and i'm only now noticing, but for me, the Baines debacle was the straw that broke the camels back.

it would be incredibly classy if he said he was honored but he does not belong.

what are the odds of that happening?

Posted by 06gsp on 1/24/2019 1:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 1/24/2019 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by 06gsp on 1/23/2019 7:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 1/23/2019 7:16:00 PM (view original):
what he said^^^ Any hall of fame that inducts Harold Baines but not Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens is useless. Nothing against Baines. He was a good player, but he was never great.

it's the way Baines got in that makes it such a joke. he was on the ballot for five years and never got more than 6% of the vote, with many of those years before the ballot got overcrowded with all the steroid guys and almost no writers were using all ten of their votes. then he fell below 5% in his fifth year and was gone.

that should have been it, but apparently if the owner of one of the teams you played on does enough politicking on your behalf, you can get in despite miserably failing by the established process. the veterans committee makes no sense when evaluating modern players anyway, in a pre-TV era there was some merit to it, but everyone voting now watched a ton of Harold Baines games and has access to video of him playing. no new information came to light since he failed to even get 5%.

just openly farcical

does it really matter how Baines got in? His plaque at the hall won't mention it, so who cares how he got in? If he had been elected by the writers instead of the veteran's committee, he still would not belong in the Hall

it matters to me because it makes a mockery of the whole process. the writers have voted in guys i didn't think belonged and not voted for guys i did think belonged. reasonable people can and will disagree but there is something to be said for the current process, as there's a good amount of transparency with the majority of voters revealing their ballots. plus the hundreds of people voting mean a few idiots can't break the entire thing.

but when one powerful owner with an agenda can undermine the whole process, it makes me not care about it. the veteran's committee was supposed to be for overlooked players from past eras, Negro League players, that kind of thing.

i dunno, maybe the process was always crooked and i'm only now noticing, but for me, the Baines debacle was the straw that broke the camels back.

it's always been that way. I loved Phil Rizzuto as a Yankees broadcaster (never saw him play) but he is not a Hall of Famer. his friends pushed his candidacy with the veteran's committee until they got him in. Happens all the time.

Posted by wylie715 on 1/24/2019 2:22:00 PM (view original):
what are the odds of that happening?

pretty slim

even when you know you been unfairly praised it feels surly and rude to turn on the guys who honor you

it takes some dickishness

accept the award and show some humility is the normal way the easy path the high road

so i don know if its classy to reject the award

its more like asking for a lifetime of controversy

Ya. I don't blame Baines. I blame his buddies that voted him in. Pretty much all he can do is graciously accept the award and acknowledge in his acceptance speech that he doesn't feel like he belongs in the company of the other inductees.

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/25/2019 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Ya. I don't blame Baines. I blame his buddies that voted him in. Pretty much all he can do is graciously accept the award and acknowledge in his acceptance speech that he doesn't feel like he belongs in the company of the other inductees.

That would be awesome if he gives back his plaque during induction and walks off the stage!

"Sorry everyone. I was just hired to help expose how ridiculous this committee is. NIB HIGH FOOTBALL RULES!"

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/25/2019 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Ya. I don't blame Baines. I blame his buddies that voted him in. Pretty much all he can do is graciously accept the award and acknowledge in his acceptance speech that he doesn't feel like he belongs in the company of the other inductees.

You can't blame Baines...its not his fault. I highly doubt he will say anything in his speech about whether he belongs or not. At most he will say he is hnored to be in the company of the other hall of famers.

i agree

but that ain what it is



lets start us a new one