Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 2:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 2/6/2019 2:22:00 PM (view original):
Bah, you're overgeneralizing. I'm a social moderate and a fiscal conservative.

And a Republican.

Maybe. I just have little faith in either party to do the right thing. I'm not saying that everyone in that party are bad people. Hell, I think Dino and B_L are good people and they are as far from me on the political spectrum as they come. I don't think supporting abortion makes them bad people. I think that view is bad, but I don't think they are bad people. Just like I think George Washington was a good man despite the fact that he owned slaves which was bad.

Are you serious KO? You think they are good people? Wow?!?!??!!

bad_luck who called all Trump voter idiots and dino who said he would commit fake suicide and banned people in his little webpage and has been banned from pariticipating in theme leagues on this site?

Your operational definition of "good" differs from mine.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 3:37:00 PM (view original):
I am objective in this. Science tells us that it is a human being.

By 12 weeks, which is still in the first trimester, a fetus has a heartbeat, limbs, genitalia, all other vital organs and much more. This is a child. There is nothing inflammatory about calling it what it is. I didn't fall for anything. I respect science. This is what biology tells us.

Let me ask you a question. You have a guy who is in a coma and on a breathing machine. There is a strong likelihood that he will come out of that coma and be able to breathe on his own in, let's throw out a random time, 9 months. Does anyone have the right to kill this person? Why or why not?

12 weeks is very far from viable.....my understanding is that the fetus is still in formation....the brain is still unformed...it is taking shape but it is not a person yet.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/6/2019 3:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 2:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 2/6/2019 2:22:00 PM (view original):
Bah, you're overgeneralizing. I'm a social moderate and a fiscal conservative.

And a Republican.

Maybe. I just have little faith in either party to do the right thing. I'm not saying that everyone in that party are bad people. Hell, I think Dino and B_L are good people and they are as far from me on the political spectrum as they come. I don't think supporting abortion makes them bad people. I think that view is bad, but I don't think they are bad people. Just like I think George Washington was a good man despite the fact that he owned slaves which was bad.

Are you serious KO? You think they are good people? Wow?!?!??!!

bad_luck who called all Trump voter idiots and dino who said he would commit fake suicide and banned people in his little webpage and has been banned from pariticipating in theme leagues on this site?

Your operational definition of "good" differs from mine.

you lack a sense of humor...baffling.
i do honestly believe that a majority of the trump voters are idiots and that the vast majority of is 33.333 % core are idiots......is there anything immoral about holding that opinion.

i do believe that strikeout does have a different barometer for good and bad good vs bad heart then cccp...i agree with cccp about that.

you are the hostile person around here...i cant understand why it has to be that way with you...every day it is the same.
be a nice guy.....it isnt difficult..it might suit you.
you hold grudges which you cannot let go.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 3:37:00 PM (view original):
I am objective in this. Science tells us that it is a human being.

By 12 weeks, which is still in the first trimester, a fetus has a heartbeat, limbs, genitalia, all other vital organs and much more. This is a child. There is nothing inflammatory about calling it what it is. I didn't fall for anything. I respect science. This is what biology tells us.

Let me ask you a question. You have a guy who is in a coma and on a breathing machine. There is a strong likelihood that he will come out of that coma and be able to breathe on his own in, let's throw out a random time, 9 months. Does anyone have the right to kill this person? Why or why not?

I'll try to objectively take this on.

Your 12 week assessment is true, EXCEPT that it isn't a child! A child can do things. It is more than just it's parts. It has a soul. An energy. All you did was list parts. A spontaneous miscarriage also has all those parts. It wasn't a baby, ever! It self aborted. It was a fetus. Not a baby, much less a child.
A baby is able to breathe and cry on its own. A child can do even more. A fetus can do none of that. It parasites off the mother. Calling a fetus a child until some REAL point of viability is just trying to denigrate someone else's view by trying to link it with willful killing. It's BS coach, in all candor.

As to the comatose guy..............let me turn it slightly.
The guy has been in the coma 9 years and left instructions (living will?) to not resuscitate. His next of kin has to decide what to do. Is he killing the innocent person by pulling the plug? after all he COULD wake up tomorrow on day 1 of year 10.

Does society get to decide? Me and You get to call the shot for the guy thru our laws??? or does the guy have the personal right to leave ORDERS that he be allowed to die with dignity even IF it offends someone somewhere.

How does he have less rights than what you want to bestow on a fetus?
The fetus needs a WHOLE lot more than some (temporary) connection to a breathing machine, doesn't it?

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/6/2019 3:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 2:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 2/6/2019 2:22:00 PM (view original):
Bah, you're overgeneralizing. I'm a social moderate and a fiscal conservative.

And a Republican.

Maybe. I just have little faith in either party to do the right thing. I'm not saying that everyone in that party are bad people. Hell, I think Dino and B_L are good people and they are as far from me on the political spectrum as they come. I don't think supporting abortion makes them bad people. I think that view is bad, but I don't think they are bad people. Just like I think George Washington was a good man despite the fact that he owned slaves which was bad.

Are you serious KO? You think they are good people? Wow?!?!??!!

bad_luck who called all Trump voter idiots and dino who said he would commit fake suicide and banned people in his little webpage and has been banned from pariticipating in theme leagues on this site?

Your operational definition of "good" differs from mine.

and you said any Jew who is a democrat is a traitor, which is just a stupid a statement as BL's any Trump voter is an idiot. Y
And yet I still think you're a good person. People can say stupid things. That doesn't make them bad people. I've said plenty of stupid things. So have you. What makes someone a bad person is their actions, not what they say.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 3:37:00 PM (view original):
I am objective in this. Science tells us that it is a human being.

By 12 weeks, which is still in the first trimester, a fetus has a heartbeat, limbs, genitalia, all other vital organs and much more. This is a child. There is nothing inflammatory about calling it what it is. I didn't fall for anything. I respect science. This is what biology tells us.

Let me ask you a question. You have a guy who is in a coma and on a breathing machine. There is a strong likelihood that he will come out of that coma and be able to breathe on his own in, let's throw out a random time, 9 months. Does anyone have the right to kill this person? Why or why not?

It's a human that can't survive unless it is physically located within another human. That other human gets to say whether or not it stays.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 10:20:00 AM (view original):
We'll cover it today as I promised Taint and since Bob brought it up. Hot topic of the Day: ABORTION

Abortion doesn't promote freedom. It is anti-freedom. It is taking away the right to life. The same argument is used for abortion as what was used for slavery. "It's my property. I can do whatever I want with it. I think everyone on here can agree that people are not property. Why do so many use this to rationalize being okay with killing the unborn baby? It's not freedom. Once again, freedom is the right to life. You are denying the baby that right. It's unconstitutional. B_L always says the mom's rights trump's the baby's. Where in our constitution are we granted the right to take another's life? He also uses the argument that the supreme court has said it's okay, so it's okay. Has our court system not ever gotten another case wrong? We have discussed Plessy V. Ferguson recently. Did they get that right? I also keep hearing that if it's outlawed, people are going to do it anyways. Murder is outlawed. It still happens. Should we make it legal because people are going to do it anyways? Bob, I love you but you are wrong. Late-term abortions don't make for a more free society. They deny freedoms.

I think I am going to skip the debate about abortion. Too many ways to get in trouble.

KO, you agree that there are at least some situations where abortion should be allowed, right?

Posted by dino27 on 2/6/2019 3:40:00 PM (view original):
just as a matter of interest in the bible if a man was in a fight with another man and a pregnant woman accidentally got injured and lost her pregnancy the man at fault had to pay a penalty... it was not considered murder o or manslaughter or even a crime.... just a civil penalty....i just mention it for the interest of it.

Like i've said, my views on abortion are not biblically based, but just for clarity's sake I will post the actual verse that you are referring to. You are incorrect in what the bible actually says.

“When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

i think a fetus up to a certain point is developing into a human but it is not " a " human.......i differentiate.

Posted by laramiebob on 2/6/2019 3:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by The Taint on 2/6/2019 2:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 2/6/2019 2:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dino27 on 2/6/2019 1:54:00 PM (view original):
i agree with the supreme court about viability.
i agree that the mother's life comes first.
i believe that the mother can decide to have a late term abortion if her life is in danger or she will suffer significant life changing problems.
i believe the mother should be able to have late term abortion if the baby will have horrible defects.
i dont belive a fetus is a human life until viability.

For a change, I agree with Dino here.

I also think that 1st trimester non-health-related abortions should include Norplant installation. If you don't want this baby, you shouldn't be able to get pregnant for a few years.

Hey, three of us in agreement. I think we have a quorum.

I can also endorse Dino's list.

I sure wish we had some women/Mothers to weigh in here. For me, one of the BIG problems is this issue it's that deciding it by Law has always (historically) been about MEN and control of women's sexuality and reproductive rights. Any feminist worth their salt can explain all about the historical control of women's reproductive rights. Doesn't anybody remember what the 60's (and the women's movement) was all about? It's that uncomfortable word FREEDOM.

Why should us men have the supreme say so (as if WE were Gods!) over when and how a woman becomes a Mother? That's what we've done for about a thousand years and I had thought that we'd evolved and freed our ******* up. But, hey who am I to argue? If the majority wants to treat women as "handwomen" waiting to be told when to deliver in childbirth then go for it. As for me, I'll try to help my daughters avoid your saddle and stay free.

Here's the flaw in the logic in the pro-abortion movement. It's about the baby. It's not about the woman. The woman made her decision when she had sex. The baby has a right to life. Both men and women should stand up to protect that baby. The abortion is argument is about whether a child should live or not. It's not about suppressing rights. Freedom is not an uncomfortable word. Freedom is allowing the innocent right to life. Abortion is anti-freedom.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 4:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dino27 on 2/6/2019 3:40:00 PM (view original):
just as a matter of interest in the bible if a man was in a fight with another man and a pregnant woman accidentally got injured and lost her pregnancy the man at fault had to pay a penalty... it was not considered murder o or manslaughter or even a crime.... just a civil penalty....i just mention it for the interest of it.

Like i've said, my views on abortion are not biblically based, but just for clarity's sake I will post the actual verse that you are referring to. You are incorrect in what the bible actually says.

“When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

my understanding is that the harm refers to the woman.

Posted by dino27 on 2/6/2019 3:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 3:37:00 PM (view original):
I am objective in this. Science tells us that it is a human being.

By 12 weeks, which is still in the first trimester, a fetus has a heartbeat, limbs, genitalia, all other vital organs and much more. This is a child. There is nothing inflammatory about calling it what it is. I didn't fall for anything. I respect science. This is what biology tells us.

Let me ask you a question. You have a guy who is in a coma and on a breathing machine. There is a strong likelihood that he will come out of that coma and be able to breathe on his own in, let's throw out a random time, 9 months. Does anyone have the right to kill this person? Why or why not?

12 weeks is very far from viable.....my understanding is that the fetus is still in formation....the brain is still unformed...it is taking shape but it is not a person yet.

The guy in a coma is far from viable as well. You never answered that part of my post.