Posted by gomiami1972 on 2/10/2019 9:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/10/2019 9:46:00 PM (view original):
Firstly, with all due respect CCCP, the uncalled for insult adds nothing to the conversation and does nothing to enlighten people on truths. It creates an environment where they will disagree with simply because they don't like you without considering the rational of your post.

Secondly, your post has a lot of truth. Enron did not kill people. It was a terrible, corrupt company but it did far less harm than a tyrannical government. Once again, it's about risk management and protecting our intrinsic freedoms. Tang, used the term "micro freedom" in an earlier post. Freedoms are freedoms. There are no micro or macro freedoms. The word :freedom" doesn't need a modifier in the same way the words "justice" and "good" don't need modifiers (i.e. social justice).

To your second point, this is one reason that I think a college education is overvalued in the marketplace. I spent all of my adult life on college campuses. The point of college is to gain knowledge. This is the only point of college. There are many less expensive options to achieve these means. But way too many kids see college as a time to "have fun" before they must transition to the real world. This is why student loan debt will lead to the next recession and most of that debt was wasted by kids who got their degree in partying and drinking beer, but never received a degree in an actual useful major.

I will mildly disagree. College/university has two functions. One is to learn a trade. The other is to learn how to think critically. It is the 2nd point where higher education has completely dropped the ball in the last generation or so.

Fair enough.

To the college point, fwiw I learned a lot in college about independence, maturity, and journalism, plus I got to put it to use.

Independence and maturity can be learned for much cheaper than what you paid for your college degree. You actually can make a profit learning these traits in the job field. Journalism probably was a poor investment as well. I'm not sure you will see much of a return on this either. And I believe that fields like journalism can be learned better in apprenticeship situations and it would also allow you to put it to use.

I did do an apprenticeship.

As to your Huffington Puffington Post article, I don't have the drive or energy to dissect all of the many inaccuracies and fallacies in it.

Posted by tangplay on 2/10/2019 10:06:00 PM (view original):
I did do an apprenticeship.

That's great. To be clear, i'm not knocking you or anyone else for going to college. Remember, I believe in personal choice. I just don't believe that formal education is the most effective route for most fields of study. (especially with the cost of college today.)

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/10/2019 10:06:00 PM (view original):
As to your Huffington Puffington Post article, I don't have the drive or energy to dissect all of the many inaccuracies and fallacies in it.

Since today is informal logical fallacy day, all I was going to say to this point is that the first sentence is a false premise. If you don't care for that explanation, then I submit that starting with sentence #1, the entire exerpt is an appeal to authority. We are supposed to take the author's definitions of civilization, libertarianism, etc. as the correct definitions...simply because the author defines it as so.

in addition to critical thinking there is learning about competition which is very healthy and also learning to be goal oriented at a very high level.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/10/2019 10:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/10/2019 10:06:00 PM (view original):
I did do an apprenticeship.

That's great. To be clear, i'm not knocking you or anyone else for going to college. Remember, I believe in personal choice. I just don't believe that formal education is the most effective route for most fields of study. (especially with the cost of college today.)

I'm glad to hear it. I spent 10 years in college. I'd hate to think it was a complete waste of time and money.

Posted by dino27 on 2/10/2019 10:22:00 PM (view original):
in addition to critical thinking there is learning about competition which is very healthy and also learning to be goal oriented at a very high level.

I'll buy that as desirable secondary goals of higher education.

another valuable thing about college is that it exposes one to a well rounded education and many people learn they have an interest and aptitude in something unexpected......if college was frowned upon there could be many great and important mechanical engineers for example who become auto mechanics......some people should reconsider college because of its cost and unliklihood they will find a profession through it but not if they have the potential to make it work for them.

Posted by dino27 on 2/10/2019 10:22:00 PM (view original):
in addition to critical thinking there is learning about competition which is very healthy and also learning to be goal oriented at a very high level.

I agree with this as well, but i'm not sure the same goals can't be achieved in the workforce. I'm just not convinced college is cost-effective.

Posted by dino27 on 2/10/2019 10:27:00 PM (view original):
another valuable thing about college is that it exposes one to a well rounded education and many people learn they have an interest and aptitude in something unexpected......if college was frowned upon there could be many great and important mechanical engineers for example who become auto mechanics......some people should reconsider college because of its cost and unliklihood they will find a profession through it but not if they have the potential to make it work for them.

Can't' argue this. Most 18 year old kids have no clue what they want to do with life. College does present an opportunity to figure this out.

if you want to be an electrician and you do have a great aptitude for it i say be an apprentice...you dont need to rack up student loans unless you want to learn a lot about building blocks of society and science college after high school is the time and there is something very great about maturing on all the levels in an inspiring and thought provoking environment.......there is really only one time for it......it is a personal choice but it is never a waste for people that are self motivated and want to enter life after high school with well rounded learning from experts.

i have some very fond memories about a lot of things about college re educ. esp my history courses.

If it permanently destroys your financial future by saddling you with $200,000+ of unrepayable debt, then the benefit is outweighed by the cost.