Posted by gomiami1972 on 2/21/2019 5:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/21/2019 3:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/21/2019 3:48:00 PM (view original):
I actually agree with BL on this one, I know tons of people who have had to escape poverty, thru my dad.

1. Graduate HS
2. Get a job
3. Don't become a single parent

Road map.

#1, which is the key to the argument, is not always a choice. Your list makes an erroneous assumption right out of the gate. The middle class view HS graduation as an accomplishment and a stepping stone to greater things. The lower class is more interested in basic needs like eating, having a place to live and owning clothes that aren't falling apart.

Many poor don't choose to drop out of HS. Those who are truly poor (not people wearing Jordans and texting on their phones) often drop out of school because the family can't make it without an additional full-time income...or because of drug and alcohol abuse either personally or within the family, because of failing grades since there is no place to study and no (intellectual) environment or support network at home to help you with coursework, because of pregnancy or disease or fatigue, because the gang on your block is recruiting you and a hundred other reasons.

With all due respect, your argument is specious.

Just do #2 and #3 then and then get your GED later.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/21/2019 5:25:00 PM (view original):
@Tang. Stop living in a world of exceptions. We are generalizing here. We are using the general rule. The people who are self-made wealthy worked the hardest. The people who live in poverty their whole life have made bad choices.

I disagree.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/21/2019 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 2/21/2019 3:42:00 PM (view original):
BL's statement that " Anyone who thinks it's not "overly difficult" to escape poverty has never had to actually escape poverty themselves. " is just as stupid as cccp's "anyone Jew who votes democrat is a traitor". How would you know? Have you ever escaped poverty? Have you personally spoken with every person who has or hasn't escaped poverty? I'm guessing the answer to both those questions is no, so you don't really know anything about the subject.

If it was easy to escape poverty very few would be in poverty.

I never said it was easy, just that your statement is a blanket statement that does not apply to everyone. You tend to make those kind of statements a lot. Like anyone who voted for Trump is an idiot. Anyone who doesn't want Bryce Harper on their team is an idiot. Anyone who thinks it is not overly difficult to escape poverty has never had to escape poverty. You don't know why everyone voted for Trump. You don't know why teams that don't want to sign Harper feel that way. You and cccp seem to both think that because you believe something to true, everyone must believe it to be true. Obviously that is not the case, since what you believe to be true and cccp believe to be true are radically different.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/21/2019 5:25:00 PM (view original):
@Tang. Stop living in a world of exceptions. We are generalizing here. We are using the general rule. The people who are self-made wealthy worked the hardest. The people who live in poverty their whole life have made bad choices.

This isn't the general rule though.

Some people who are wealthy and self-made worked hard.
Some people who are wealthy and self-made didn't necessarily work that hard
Some people who are poor made bad choices or are lazy.
Some people who are poor worked hard and made good choices and just had **** luck.

Posted by tangplay on 2/21/2019 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/21/2019 5:25:00 PM (view original):
@Tang. Stop living in a world of exceptions. We are generalizing here. We are using the general rule. The people who are self-made wealthy worked the hardest. The people who live in poverty their whole life have made bad choices.

I disagree.

There is nothing to disagree with. This is like saying that I disagree that the sky is blue. The people that work harder and make better choices have a higher rate of success. This is a fact and also common sense.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/21/2019 6:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/21/2019 5:25:00 PM (view original):
@Tang. Stop living in a world of exceptions. We are generalizing here. We are using the general rule. The people who are self-made wealthy worked the hardest. The people who live in poverty their whole life have made bad choices.

This isn't the general rule though.

Some people who are wealthy and self-made worked hard.
Some people who are wealthy and self-made didn't necessarily work that hard
Some people who are poor made bad choices or are lazy.
Some people who are poor worked hard and made good choices and just had **** luck.

Please use common sense and logic. Those who work hard and made the better choices have a higher rate of success. This is an undeniable truth.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/21/2019 4:32:00 PM (view original):
No one has equal opportunity. I never got an opportunity to play for the Celtics. It works 98% of the time. Not terrible. A+. You don't have any suggestions. You just criticize. Not very helpful. Then again you went to college to "have a good time". Maybe you should have studied economics?

that is not true. You could have had an opportunity to play for the Celtics, but being a short, fat white guy, you would not be able to take advantage of that opportunity.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/21/2019 5:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 2/21/2019 5:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/21/2019 3:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/21/2019 3:48:00 PM (view original):
I actually agree with BL on this one, I know tons of people who have had to escape poverty, thru my dad.

1. Graduate HS
2. Get a job
3. Don't become a single parent

Road map.

#1, which is the key to the argument, is not always a choice. Your list makes an erroneous assumption right out of the gate. The middle class view HS graduation as an accomplishment and a stepping stone to greater things. The lower class is more interested in basic needs like eating, having a place to live and owning clothes that aren't falling apart.

Many poor don't choose to drop out of HS. Those who are truly poor (not people wearing Jordans and texting on their phones) often drop out of school because the family can't make it without an additional full-time income...or because of drug and alcohol abuse either personally or within the family, because of failing grades since there is no place to study and no (intellectual) environment or support network at home to help you with coursework, because of pregnancy or disease or fatigue, because the gang on your block is recruiting you and a hundred other reasons.

With all due respect, your argument is specious.

Just do #2 and #3 then and then get your GED later.

just out of curiosity, do you think anyone grows up saying "I want to be a single parent when I grow up?"

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/21/2019 6:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/21/2019 6:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/21/2019 5:25:00 PM (view original):
@Tang. Stop living in a world of exceptions. We are generalizing here. We are using the general rule. The people who are self-made wealthy worked the hardest. The people who live in poverty their whole life have made bad choices.

This isn't the general rule though.

Some people who are wealthy and self-made worked hard.
Some people who are wealthy and self-made didn't necessarily work that hard
Some people who are poor made bad choices or are lazy.
Some people who are poor worked hard and made good choices and just had **** luck.

Please use common sense and logic. Those who work hard and made the better choices have a higher rate of success. This is an undeniable truth.

"Made better choices" is kind of a weird standard, right? Obviously in retrospect, some choices are better than others but that isn't always easy to see at the time. Something might seem like a good choice at the time and end up being a disaster.

That could be taking a new job, buying a house, marrying someone, having kids, investing in a business, etc. All of those choices could be stepping stones to success and a happy life. Or any one of those choices could be a time-bomb that sets you back years.

Posted by wylie715 on 2/21/2019 6:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/21/2019 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 2/21/2019 3:42:00 PM (view original):
BL's statement that " Anyone who thinks it's not "overly difficult" to escape poverty has never had to actually escape poverty themselves. " is just as stupid as cccp's "anyone Jew who votes democrat is a traitor". How would you know? Have you ever escaped poverty? Have you personally spoken with every person who has or hasn't escaped poverty? I'm guessing the answer to both those questions is no, so you don't really know anything about the subject.

If it was easy to escape poverty very few would be in poverty.

I never said it was easy, just that your statement is a blanket statement that does not apply to everyone. You tend to make those kind of statements a lot. Like anyone who voted for Trump is an idiot. Anyone who doesn't want Bryce Harper on their team is an idiot. Anyone who thinks it is not overly difficult to escape poverty has never had to escape poverty. You don't know why everyone voted for Trump. You don't know why teams that don't want to sign Harper feel that way. You and cccp seem to both think that because you believe something to true, everyone must believe it to be true. Obviously that is not the case, since what you believe to be true and cccp believe to be true are radically different.

I actually do know for a fact that every single person who voted for Trump is a complete idiot.

You're right about the rest though. Maybe there are people out there who have easily escaped poverty and who don't want Bryce Harper on their favorite baseball team.

strikeout, I agree with what you are saying. If someone works hard and tries to make the right choices (although as BL says, what looks like the right choice now, could turn out to be the wrong choice later on down the road) are more likely to be successful that a lazy bastard who constantly makes the wrong choices.

No, it's not a weird standard. If you are smart with your choices, more times than not it will be the right choice. We'll use your "buying a house" example. If I buy a house with no money in reserve I am asking for disaster. It is a bad idea. Even if it works out okay in the end, it was still a bad idea.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/21/2019 6:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 2/21/2019 6:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/21/2019 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 2/21/2019 3:42:00 PM (view original):
BL's statement that " Anyone who thinks it's not "overly difficult" to escape poverty has never had to actually escape poverty themselves. " is just as stupid as cccp's "anyone Jew who votes democrat is a traitor". How would you know? Have you ever escaped poverty? Have you personally spoken with every person who has or hasn't escaped poverty? I'm guessing the answer to both those questions is no, so you don't really know anything about the subject.

If it was easy to escape poverty very few would be in poverty.

I never said it was easy, just that your statement is a blanket statement that does not apply to everyone. You tend to make those kind of statements a lot. Like anyone who voted for Trump is an idiot. Anyone who doesn't want Bryce Harper on their team is an idiot. Anyone who thinks it is not overly difficult to escape poverty has never had to escape poverty. You don't know why everyone voted for Trump. You don't know why teams that don't want to sign Harper feel that way. You and cccp seem to both think that because you believe something to true, everyone must believe it to be true. Obviously that is not the case, since what you believe to be true and cccp believe to be true are radically different.

I actually do know for a fact that every single person who voted for Trump is a complete idiot.

You're right about the rest though. Maybe there are people out there who have easily escaped poverty and who don't want Bryce Harper on their favorite baseball team.

That's just what I am talking about. There is no way you could know for a fact that everyone who voted for Trump is a complete idiot, because it is not a fact. You don't know every person who voted for Trump. Matter of fact, you know a very small percentage of the people who voted for Trump. Therefore you could not possibly know they are all idiots, or even that most of them are idiots. I know for a fact that some people who voted for Trump are not idiots. I know this because I know some people who voted for Trump, and had what they felt were valid reasons for voting that way, who are not complete idiots.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/21/2019 6:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/21/2019 6:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/21/2019 5:25:00 PM (view original):
@Tang. Stop living in a world of exceptions. We are generalizing here. We are using the general rule. The people who are self-made wealthy worked the hardest. The people who live in poverty their whole life have made bad choices.

This isn't the general rule though.

Some people who are wealthy and self-made worked hard.
Some people who are wealthy and self-made didn't necessarily work that hard
Some people who are poor made bad choices or are lazy.
Some people who are poor worked hard and made good choices and just had **** luck.

Please use common sense and logic. Those who work hard and made the better choices have a higher rate of success. This is an undeniable truth.

I'm probably going to drop out of this topic because I'm having a difficult time fathoming the gap between the idealistic and the stark reality.

My final comment is that many of you are making the assumption that there is a choice to be made.

People with options make choices.

When there is only one path forward you simply proceed whether you want to or not.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/21/2019 6:24:00 PM (view original):
No, it's not a weird standard. If you are smart with your choices, more times than not it will be the right choice. We'll use your "buying a house" example. If I buy a house with no money in reserve I am asking for disaster. It is a bad idea. Even if it works out okay in the end, it was still a bad idea.

Or, you buy a house and the market takes a dump. You lose your job, run through your savings, and can't sell the house. Your credit is wrecked for seven years after the bank forecloses.