Posted by gomiami1972 on 2/24/2019 4:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bagchucker on 2/24/2019 3:42:00 PM (view original):
human populations burn fuel

you accept as a fact, right?

Sure. We might not need to burn oil but we'd need to burn something to keep 8? billion fed and sheltered.

I'm trying to get past the "does Climate Change exist" question. If what tang began to touch upon is true and it doesn't matter whether it is man-made, natural, real or imaginary...humans are showing no signs of slowing down the rabbit farm.

The entire world's economy and industry can't be changed overnight...probably can't be changed over a decade. How would a worldwide standard work? What if a country simply ignores the target emissions level? A theory about how to stop man-made pollution is a lot different than actual implementation, which would almost certainly require some sort of force or threat of force (IMHO.) The entire world agreeing and sticking to the same course is just a bit idealistic since it has never happened before.

How would it be implemented and enforced? Again, an honest question.

well, america takes the lead, does not shirk its word wide responsibilities, uses carrots and sticks, and changes the world for good

its pretty simple

I like it.... In principle.

anything that cuts costs and improves outcomes i am for

Join the rest of the civilized world?

1. It doesn't work in a country like the US. Impossible.
   1. We have the 14th amendment where everyone born on US soil is automatically a citizen. Only Canada has that same rule. Canada has 34mil people and the US has 10x that. Hence the $$$ doesn't work.
   2. Most other countries have free or very inexpensive education. To become a doctor in US it costs ~$400k if not more. Fewer people would want to be doctors if they cannot get the "bang for the buck" and they would be paid less under a nationalized healthcare system.
   3. Insurance companies are too strong in terms of lobbying.
   4. Wealthier people would get supplemental insurance to get quicker services. In Canada you cannot guaranty surgery the next day. You can in the US for instance. Thus seeing #2 most doctors would only take patients with supplemental insurance to get the max $$. If you truly want Nationalized Healthcare you have to eliminate private pay completely. When I call an MD for my kids and their numerous sports injuries. I get an appt. immediately because I have private pay. Those on medicare have to wait. Hence my parents got supplemental private pay.
   5. We have the best healthcare in the world because of private pay. It is confusing and stupid but the results are great. Many from other countries come here for cancer cures, rare diseases, etc. We have the best surgeons, innovators and hospitals. But the system is definitely broken.

To summarize. Nationalized Healthcare DOES NOT WORK for a country like the US based on what I stated above.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/25/2019 9:14:00 AM (view original):

1. It doesn't work in a country like the US. Impossible.
   1. We have the 14th amendment where everyone born on US soil is automatically a citizen. Only Canada has that same rule. Canada has 34mil people and the US has 10x that. Hence the $$$ doesn't work.
   2. Most other countries have free or very inexpensive education. To become a doctor in US it costs ~$400k if not more. Fewer people would want to be doctors if they cannot get the "bang for the buck" and they would be paid less under a nationalized healthcare system.
   3. Insurance companies are too strong in terms of lobbying.
   4. Wealthier people would get supplemental insurance to get quicker services. In Canada you cannot guaranty surgery the next day. You can in the US for instance. Thus seeing #2 most doctors would only take patients with supplemental insurance to get the max $$. If you truly want Nationalized Healthcare you have to eliminate private pay completely. When I call an MD for my kids and their numerous sports injuries. I get an appt. immediately because I have private pay. Those on medicare have to wait. Hence my parents got supplemental private pay.
   5. We have the best healthcare in the world because of private pay. It is confusing and stupid but the results are great. Many from other countries come here for cancer cures, rare diseases, etc. We have the best surgeons, innovators and hospitals. But the system is definitely broken.

To summarize. Nationalized Healthcare DOES NOT WORK for a country like the US based on what I stated above.

Devil's advocate:
1. More people=more taxes
2. Well make the US like other countries.
3. OK? This is about 'should', not 'will'.
4. Make it like Canada then.
5. Not for people in poverty.

Posted by tangplay on 2/25/2019 10:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/25/2019 9:14:00 AM (view original):

1. It doesn't work in a country like the US. Impossible.
   1. We have the 14th amendment where everyone born on US soil is automatically a citizen. Only Canada has that same rule. Canada has 34mil people and the US has 10x that. Hence the $$$ doesn't work.
   2. Most other countries have free or very inexpensive education. To become a doctor in US it costs ~$400k if not more. Fewer people would want to be doctors if they cannot get the "bang for the buck" and they would be paid less under a nationalized healthcare system.
   3. Insurance companies are too strong in terms of lobbying.
   4. Wealthier people would get supplemental insurance to get quicker services. In Canada you cannot guaranty surgery the next day. You can in the US for instance. Thus seeing #2 most doctors would only take patients with supplemental insurance to get the max $$. If you truly want Nationalized Healthcare you have to eliminate private pay completely. When I call an MD for my kids and their numerous sports injuries. I get an appt. immediately because I have private pay. Those on medicare have to wait. Hence my parents got supplemental private pay.
   5. We have the best healthcare in the world because of private pay. It is confusing and stupid but the results are great. Many from other countries come here for cancer cures, rare diseases, etc. We have the best surgeons, innovators and hospitals. But the system is definitely broken.

To summarize. Nationalized Healthcare DOES NOT WORK for a country like the US based on what I stated above.

Devil's advocate:
1. More people=more taxes
2. Well make the US like other countries.
3. OK? This is about 'should', not 'will'.
4. Make it like Canada then.
5. Not for people in poverty.

1) Not all pay taxes LOL.
2) How?
3) It is there you cannot just dismiss it.
4) That is how Canada is and they come here! And Canada has 10x fewer people.
5) Yes for them it is broken. But it is broken for them in other countries too.

Here is how I would do it if it must be done even though I HATE IT.

1) Abolish the 14th amendment. You cannot just be a citizen because you're born here. Like the UK model, at least one of your parents should be a citizen first.
2) Charge doctors a flat 5% tax rate for life. Since they pay so much up front and will make less because of Nationalized Healthcare, they should pay lower taxes. This will ensure we have enough doctors.
3) Eliminate private pay completely. Make it like Sweden where every one pays into one giant insurance system and there are no others.

Impossible but would be the only way I would support it.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/25/2019 8:25:00 AM (view original):
Topic of the day: Universal Health Care

Personally, I'm not in favor of it but I'm not willing to go to war to prevent it. The only aspect I don't like about the rhetoric surrounding this topic is the notion that it must an all or nothing deal - everyone has to be in the public system in order to make it work. We have a blend of both private and public insurance right now. I'd like to keep it that way. I have no problem expanding the public side. I just want the option of retaining private insurance rather than being forced onto a public plan.

Posted by gomiami1972 on 2/25/2019 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/25/2019 8:25:00 AM (view original):
Topic of the day: Universal Health Care

Personally, I'm not in favor of it but I'm not willing to go to war to prevent it. The only aspect I don't like about the rhetoric surrounding this topic is the notion that it must an all or nothing deal - everyone has to be in the public system in order to make it work. We have a blend of both private and public insurance right now. I'd like to keep it that way. I have no problem expanding the public side. I just want the option of retaining private insurance rather than being forced onto a public plan.

If you do that, many MDs will give priority to patients with private insurance and you have the same dilemma that Leftists whine about. Rich get priorities.

Posted by gomiami1972 on 2/25/2019 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/25/2019 8:25:00 AM (view original):
Topic of the day: Universal Health Care

Personally, I'm not in favor of it but I'm not willing to go to war to prevent it. The only aspect I don't like about the rhetoric surrounding this topic is the notion that it must an all or nothing deal - everyone has to be in the public system in order to make it work. We have a blend of both private and public insurance right now. I'd like to keep it that way. I have no problem expanding the public side. I just want the option of retaining private insurance rather than being forced onto a public plan.

I think that’s a good point. And it’s probably something for Democrat voters to keep in mind during the primaries. The idea that maybe we should take an intermediary step—a public option or lowering the Medicare age—isn’t terrible. It doesn’t make a candidate a traitor to the progressive cause.

I think we should INCREASE the Medicare age not decrease it.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/25/2019 10:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/25/2019 10:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/25/2019 9:14:00 AM (view original):

1. It doesn't work in a country like the US. Impossible.
   1. We have the 14th amendment where everyone born on US soil is automatically a citizen. Only Canada has that same rule. Canada has 34mil people and the US has 10x that. Hence the $$$ doesn't work.
   2. Most other countries have free or very inexpensive education. To become a doctor in US it costs ~$400k if not more. Fewer people would want to be doctors if they cannot get the "bang for the buck" and they would be paid less under a nationalized healthcare system.
   3. Insurance companies are too strong in terms of lobbying.
   4. Wealthier people would get supplemental insurance to get quicker services. In Canada you cannot guaranty surgery the next day. You can in the US for instance. Thus seeing #2 most doctors would only take patients with supplemental insurance to get the max $$. If you truly want Nationalized Healthcare you have to eliminate private pay completely. When I call an MD for my kids and their numerous sports injuries. I get an appt. immediately because I have private pay. Those on medicare have to wait. Hence my parents got supplemental private pay.
   5. We have the best healthcare in the world because of private pay. It is confusing and stupid but the results are great. Many from other countries come here for cancer cures, rare diseases, etc. We have the best surgeons, innovators and hospitals. But the system is definitely broken.

To summarize. Nationalized Healthcare DOES NOT WORK for a country like the US based on what I stated above.

Devil's advocate:
1. More people=more taxes
2. Well make the US like other countries.
3. OK? This is about 'should', not 'will'.
4. Make it like Canada then.
5. Not for people in poverty.

1) Not all pay taxes LOL.
2) How?
3) It is there you cannot just dismiss it.
4) That is how Canada is and they come here! And Canada has 10x fewer people.
5) Yes for them it is broken. But it is broken for them in other countries too.

Here is how I would do it if it must be done even though I HATE IT.

1) Abolish the 14th amendment. You cannot just be a citizen because you're born here. Like the UK model, at least one of your parents should be a citizen first.
2) Charge doctors a flat 5% tax rate for life. Since they pay so much up front and will make less because of Nationalized Healthcare, they should pay lower taxes. This will ensure we have enough doctors.
3) Eliminate private pay completely. Make it like Sweden where every one pays into one giant insurance system and there are no others.

Impossible but would be the only way I would support it.

1) Are the rates of tax-paying the same?
2) Free or inexpensive education.
3) Yeah, it won't happen. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen.
4) Yeah for the rich.
5) So let's fix that.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/25/2019 10:58:00 AM (view original):
I think we should INCREASE the Medicare age not decrease it.

Well, you’re an idiot, so it isn’t surprising that you think idiot thoughts.

Posted by tangplay on 2/25/2019 12:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/25/2019 10:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 2/25/2019 10:11:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/25/2019 9:14:00 AM (view original):

1. It doesn't work in a country like the US. Impossible.
   1. We have the 14th amendment where everyone born on US soil is automatically a citizen. Only Canada has that same rule. Canada has 34mil people and the US has 10x that. Hence the $$$ doesn't work.
   2. Most other countries have free or very inexpensive education. To become a doctor in US it costs ~$400k if not more. Fewer people would want to be doctors if they cannot get the "bang for the buck" and they would be paid less under a nationalized healthcare system.
   3. Insurance companies are too strong in terms of lobbying.
   4. Wealthier people would get supplemental insurance to get quicker services. In Canada you cannot guaranty surgery the next day. You can in the US for instance. Thus seeing #2 most doctors would only take patients with supplemental insurance to get the max $$. If you truly want Nationalized Healthcare you have to eliminate private pay completely. When I call an MD for my kids and their numerous sports injuries. I get an appt. immediately because I have private pay. Those on medicare have to wait. Hence my parents got supplemental private pay.
   5. We have the best healthcare in the world because of private pay. It is confusing and stupid but the results are great. Many from other countries come here for cancer cures, rare diseases, etc. We have the best surgeons, innovators and hospitals. But the system is definitely broken.

To summarize. Nationalized Healthcare DOES NOT WORK for a country like the US based on what I stated above.

Devil's advocate:
1. More people=more taxes
2. Well make the US like other countries.
3. OK? This is about 'should', not 'will'.
4. Make it like Canada then.
5. Not for people in poverty.

1) Not all pay taxes LOL.
2) How?
3) It is there you cannot just dismiss it.
4) That is how Canada is and they come here! And Canada has 10x fewer people.
5) Yes for them it is broken. But it is broken for them in other countries too.

Here is how I would do it if it must be done even though I HATE IT.

1) Abolish the 14th amendment. You cannot just be a citizen because you're born here. Like the UK model, at least one of your parents should be a citizen first.
2) Charge doctors a flat 5% tax rate for life. Since they pay so much up front and will make less because of Nationalized Healthcare, they should pay lower taxes. This will ensure we have enough doctors.
3) Eliminate private pay completely. Make it like Sweden where every one pays into one giant insurance system and there are no others.

Impossible but would be the only way I would support it.

1) Are the rates of tax-paying the same?
2) Free or inexpensive education.
3) Yeah, it won't happen. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen.
4) Yeah for the rich.
5) So let's fix that.

OK so you agree that first you have to tackle education prior to tackling Nationalized Healthcare.

We have progress. Good luck with that as the best medical schools are private.