Posted by dahsdebater on 3/7/2019 11:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 3/6/2019 3:18:00 PM (view original):
A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false. An opinion is an expression of a person's feelings that cannot be proven.

An opinion can still be incorrect. By definition it's generally not based on facts, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be proven correct or incorrect by factual evidence. For example, relevant to this discussion, numerous parents are of the opinion that vaccinating their children puts the children's health at risk. But plenty of factual evidence demonstrates that this opinion is incorrect. It's their opinion. It's also verifiably incorrect.

I came back to this because I think your expressed opinion here is one of the root causes of the current dysfunctional state of political discourse in this country. There seems to be a widespread perception that opinions cannot be incorrect, and that everyone's opinion is valid and important. That leads people to disregard things like scientific studies because they believe their own opinions on issues are inherently valid. We see this in this vaccine debate, and we certainly see it in virtually any climate change discussion. Everybody wants to claim that climate change either A) doesn't exist, or at least can't be traced to anthropogenic sources, or B) is going to put 30% of the world's population underwater by 2070. Neither of these is a realistic position based on the preponderance of scientific modeling. By looking at outlier results of climate modeling studies (IE 1st and 99th percentile outcomes from a reported range) and convincing themselves that their opinions on climate change must be valid, people at these wild extremes find no common ground and just yell at each other. We're virtually never having the really important discussion, which should be how do we balance the long-term need to protect our planet with the short-term need to sustain economic well-being.

If more people accepted that their opinions might not be valid, certainly not as valid as those of experts in a relevant field, we could have much more productive political conversations and maybe find mutually acceptable solutions.

I'm shouting at the sky F'ing A right on!!!!

This is exactly correct unless you are opining about superficial stuff like "who't the best ever ??" or Blue is the best color.
That kind of stuff is just childish argueing/debate about who has the best Taste or "idea"

especially this part!!

"If more people accepted that their opinions might not be valid, certainly not as valid as those of experts in a relevant field, we could have much more productive political conversations and maybe find mutually acceptable solutions."

Thank you DD for this. It is so so right!

Posted by cccp1014 on 3/7/2019 12:07:00 PM (view original):
If there is a scientific study then the opinion becomes a fact and may be wrong. If my opinion is that Derek Jeter is overrated it cannot be wrong if my opinion is that Derek Jeter is 6’9 it is no longer an opinion but a misstated fact.

When we look at what we were actually talking about, your original statement was that your experience with a statistically insignificant proportion of the people in the United States was enough to form an opinion. Which, in context, leaves the blatantly obvious possibility that if you surveyed the entire country, or a different subset of its people, you might form a different opinion. But only the opinion based on the full population would be "correct" in this case - population bias can make an opinion wrong if you're forming an opinion based on people with whom you talk regularly.

All of which is a long way of saying that if you admit that you form political opinions based on personal experience, those are the exact kind of opinions which could be wrong.

CCCP, your topic struggled today!

That's okay. I have a winner for tomorrow.

I will be out all day.

That's unfortunate. You would enjoy the topic. I may save it for Monday then.

Posted by dahsdebater on 3/7/2019 4:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 3/7/2019 12:07:00 PM (view original):
If there is a scientific study then the opinion becomes a fact and may be wrong. If my opinion is that Derek Jeter is overrated it cannot be wrong if my opinion is that Derek Jeter is 6’9 it is no longer an opinion but a misstated fact.

When we look at what we were actually talking about, your original statement was that your experience with a statistically insignificant proportion of the people in the United States was enough to form an opinion. Which, in context, leaves the blatantly obvious possibility that if you surveyed the entire country, or a different subset of its people, you might form a different opinion. But only the opinion based on the full population would be "correct" in this case - population bias can make an opinion wrong if you're forming an opinion based on people with whom you talk regularly.

All of which is a long way of saying that if you admit that you form political opinions based on personal experience, those are the exact kind of opinions which could be wrong.

Not wrong but maybe uninformed with the limited facts I have. Except I traveled a lot of this country and met 1000s of people.

Posted by tangplay on 3/7/2019 2:38:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, solicitating prostitution is fine as long as you are rich.

??? You asked how he was and I said he was fine. Are you mentally unstable? Your Chiefs choked. Chill.

Posted by cccp1014 on 3/7/2019 10:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 3/7/2019 2:38:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, solicitating prostitution is fine as long as you are rich.

??? You asked how he was and I said he was fine. Are you mentally unstable? Your Chiefs choked. Chill.

Glad to know that the sex trafficking industry is no big deal anymore.

#MeToo

Tinkle-down economics never works

Repubs give us tax cuts for the "job creators", deficits, recessions, and then Dem. Presidents to clean up their ****-shows.

Posted by tangplay on 3/7/2019 11:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 3/7/2019 10:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 3/7/2019 2:38:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, solicitating prostitution is fine as long as you are rich.

??? You asked how he was and I said he was fine. Are you mentally unstable? Your Chiefs choked. Chill.

Glad to know that the sex trafficking industry is no big deal anymore.

You're jumping to conclusions. He was arrested for a misdemeanor. Learn to read.

Posted by strikeout26 on 3/8/2019 9:05:00 AM (view original):
Topic of the day: The economy. Where is it heading and why?

We need a federal sales tax. I recommend 2% on everything until debt dips below $10Trn. Raise the retirement age to 73. Try to do a better job with fraud. Better border security and enforcement of green card overstays and we should be OK. Low unemployment, high level of innovation, wage growth is all great.

Posted by cccp1014 on 3/8/2019 10:00:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 3/8/2019 9:05:00 AM (view original):
Topic of the day: The economy. Where is it heading and why?

We need a federal sales tax. I recommend 2% on everything until debt dips below $10Trn. Raise the retirement age to 73. Try to do a better job with fraud. Better border security and enforcement of green card overstays and we should be OK. Low unemployment, high level of innovation, wage growth is all great.

No, we do not need a federal sales tax. We do not need to raise the retirement age.

Wage growth is somewhat stagnant right now.